i believe that the G70 uses fantom sound chips, tyros uses motif sound chips, korg uses triton sound chips, and genesys uses, well genesys sound chips...the manufacturers do not create different chip sets for workstations-v-arrangers, they are the same sounds, with different names(the same actually on some) and are eq'd and effected slightly differently to fit in with a "full band" soundscape..in fact you have pretty much the FULL sound edting capabilities on the PA1X, i think the Genesys can too, but Yammi and Roland have a more limited "Synth" editing capability...in truth,most of the arranger boards, could really be more correctly called workstations as they can do everything..in the case of the korg you have solo synth, sound creation/editing; arranger;sampler;sequencer; recorder (mp3); and just add wav audio recording for the gensys (and dave can correct me) but it also does all of the above, the roland does the same as does the yamaha and the ketrons too..so ALL of us arranger keyboard owners have the TRUE workstations in my opinion...
dennis
almost forgot, you also have apreggiators on the arrangers as well with their "pads", playing musical phrases and riffs at the touch of a button, and these can be user edited and recorded as well!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 03-26-2006).]

Dave
1. What is the name of the store where I can see this GEM in Grand Junction?
2. I don't want to do tract by tract sequencing. Does the GEM sequence with the styles and still have all of the copy and paste features? This is what I do. I don't have the patience to sequence track by track. It'd take me 6 months to do one tune.
3. How much does this baby weigh?
4. How many styles does it have?
All the arrangers have hundreds of more sounds than I'd ever use. For performance it�s all about styles for me. The more the better.
Dave thanks for all of the input.

Hi,

[*]Please send an e-mail to me requesting the dealer name and I will promptly reply via e-mail.

[*]Yes. It is very easy to record a full arranged song while playing in Style Mode. We call this method of recording �Easy Song Record� mode. A song recorded in Easy Song Record mode is exactly like a song recorded track by track. There is no difference between the two, nothing to distinguish the fact that the tracks were created simultaneously by using the arranger section. So yes, all of the editing is available.

[*]The Genesys Pro S weighs 41 lbs. and is very sleek in shape. The LCD pops up for play and folds flat for transport to make for a fairly thin case. We also offer a very nice padded gig bag with wheels which I have but I generally just carry it because it is not that heavy.

[*]The Genesys has 256 internal Styles and 64 User Style locations. You can record your own styles from scratch, or you can copy any internal style to a user location and edit its tracks using the very same editing functions that are available in the sequencer section. Or you can download additional styles from www.musicmediasoft.com and other sources.

BTW: I forgot to mention that the Genesys sequencer has 32 tracks instead of the usual 16. There are a lot of advantages to this besides just having an additional 16 tracks to record into.

• Each track of a sequence can be assigned any MIDI channel and whether it will play locally, externally or both.
• Multiple tracks can share the same MIDI channel as well so you can double up on parts or have a huge layer as the live keyboard sound while playing with a sequence.
• The Genesys features two sets of MIDI In/Out/Thru ports for true 32 MIDI channel capability.

I made mention of a Song Preset in a previous post. Each song has 8 presets that are saved along with the song (in GEM Song Format). A Song Preset remembers;

• Sound assignments for all 32 tracks
• All editable track parameters
• All effects assignments
• Pedal and wheel assignments
• Mic level, vocal effects and vocal harmonizer settings
• Programmable Pad assignment

I will be on the lookout for your e-mail.

Best Regards,

Dave



[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 03-26-2006).]

People will always be looking for a bargain and I am as guilty of that as anyone else. It does not pay back for certain prducts, though, such as keyboards. In those cases it'd be wiser to pay a bit more but have service at hand. But before making a purchase it'd be nice to have a knowledgeable demonstrator/salesperson that can show and explain us what the instrument can do: sounds, styles, effects, etc. A salesperson trying to sell you a keyboard but has no knowledge about keyboards or that particular kb has no business coming up with a 'memorized' sales pitch. There was a time when a salesperson had to be a demonstrator as well. Now you have a salesperson but not a demonstrator. Lots of stores in Taiwan have plastic over the keyboards and you aren't even allowed to play for that would make them secondhand according to the store manager. Or they can't seem to locate the plug. The looks on their faces whenever I ask them to try out an organ or keyboard...true horror. But once you buy you're stuck with it for there's no such thing as a try-out period. On too many occassions have I been given the cold shoulder and had to put up with their indifference. If that's how they deal with potential customers they sure don't have reason to complain about faltering sales. I do let them know that they've just lost a potential customer for I won't put up with such behavior. Serves them right! A store that has brochures of the top models but doesn't have them in the shop had better pack up and change its line of business.

Taike



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Khoi huk ngam sud tee huk kon diow.

Hi Don,

The store I am talking about sells a lot of Genesys keyboards and the owner (who also is the main salesman as far as I know, is anything but what you described. I believe you are talking about a different store, possible one in the DC area"?". If this is the case, I understand your comments.

Do you really consider 41 lbs. to be super heavy? For an instrument whose case is constructed entirely out of metal and not molded plastic I don't think it is heavy at all. And the design of the case being as thin as it is when the LCD is folded down for transport, makes for a very small package to carry. The Genesys Pro is far more roadworthy than its plastic counterparts so I think the tiny bit of added weight is well worth it to properly protect the owners' investment.

Best Regards,

Dave


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Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 03-27-2006).]

Dave, for a 61 key instrument 41 lbs IS heavy. I believe, many manufacturers are guilty of ignoring the needs of gigging musicians, and making the instruments unnecessarily heavy - I am sure that it is possible to make a metal-cased instrument with 76 keys that weighs no more than 35 lbs - just look at Ketron, and a 61 key instrument should be lighter than that (ever heard of aluminum?). As even the younger users of the arrangers are growing older, weight becomes more and more of an issue. True, many used to lug around 100lbs+ organs in the 70s, but the times have changed, and compaing today's electronic instrument to a 40 year old one not reasonable. There is value in encasing the instrument in steel, but these days it is not an indication of the instrument's durability - it is determined by the electronics inside, so if five years down the line an instrument becomes unserviceable due to obsolete electronic components, it will have to be thrown away just like the one with a plastic body.

To address some of your other comments: I have been to "small" specialty stores in my area which stocked arranger keyboards of particular makes (G70, and before that, Technics). I received the similar service to that in the GC - the salesman was all sales and no knowledge. The main difference was that they were insulting me with the car-dealer like pricing (e.g. list $7000, but buy today and I will give you a whopping $1000 off) - is that what you call "fair price"? I am not saying that all independent dealers are like that, but this has been my experience on multiple occasions. I came close to buying the Technics, but their pricing outraged me so much that I had cancelled my order. I must not have been the only one, which is why they are where they are now.

The poor sales are not all fault of the dealers - the manufacturers are in large part to blame. As earlier posts here stated, the newer models of the keyboards are my and large repackages of the old technologies - while the Korg may be using the Triton chip, look how many years it took Korg to incorporate this chip in the PA1X. Heck, your own company touts Drake technology as the cutting edge of sound generation. Yet your GEnesys does not use it, even though it was introduced way after the Drake? Why should the user plunk their money into something that is using old technologies from the start?

Of course, it is not enough to simply include the latest chip - an arranger is a different instrument, with a different user interface requirements - a good UI is much more important than in a synth, as the player is trying to control a virtual band, and not just the solo voices. The touch screen, which may work for off-line configuration in Triton does not work as well in an arranger (like the PA1X or G70), and I am not even going to go into the polyphony issues.

A cursory search of this web site will yield representative list of features which the users deem important. I don't know what kind of market research the arranger makers do, but there are very few instruments on the market today which include most of the features that the users need. While there may be a disagreement as to needing 76 keys, or only 61, there is argument that important thing is keeping the weight of the instrument as low as possible. Most posters advocate having 61 keys mainly as a way of keeping the weight down. Still, if you check the newer offerings, Roland G70 is heavier than its predecessors, Korg is heavier still, and Genesys it competing to outweigh them without even trying to offer the advantages of 76 keys.

I believe that the main problem is not just the poor marketing, but that manufacturers think more about protecting their markets, than making what the players need/want. They deliberately hamstring their instruments, keeping the latest in new technologies as the selling points for their future supposed offerings, rather than maximizing the value and features of the current ones. And that is the real reason that (with few exceptions) the arranger keyboards are relegated to the real shelves of the obscure little stores.


Regards


[This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 03-27-2006).]

Alex.....
great post ......your not alone in your thinking my friend!! You really have to do your homework & research before you buy a piece of gear these days......with "very few exceptions" eg: George Kaye, Dan O, AJ, I can sadly say that the stores are absolutley no help what so ever to the uninformed buyer.......people are getting ripped off every day .......I've had people come up to me on stage and say " I just bought a Yamaha psr 3000, got a good deal $2795.00 it was the last one they had in the store, plus I get lifetime lessons too" the mark up is unbelievable, then 6 month later the same salesmen talks the same customers into a new $20,000+ organ which they'll never play or learn how to use...which usualy after they pass away the wife or husband will donate it to the church or clubhouse with a nice plaque with his name on it "In Memory Of Joe Blow" etc, etc, Roland G70 ? yea, try to find one of those in your local store......but in home organ stores they are ballooning the price of them to levels unkown to mankind !!!
makes me sick to hear this crap...
It's buyer beware my friends!!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 03-27-2006).]

I saw a home video on Sunday of a MacDonals in the Eukraine. It looked like a MacDonals in any other city in the U.S. or Canada.
Many of the large stores carry the same products, even the smaller stores, carry the same product.
In Canada Music stores will NOT negtiate a lower price. They all sell at the same list price. So I often ask the question, why would I buy from one store or another? It has to be for some reason other then price.
This sounds silly, but Long & Mcquade in T.O. throw out the boxes, so I would have to carry a brand new, pristine, keyboard home without a box. I buy from another store that keep the boxes.
Starkeeper

Donny,

I am really glad you brought this up. When I worked for the Baldwin Piano Co. one of my responsibilities was to visit dealers around the country to offer product training and workshops for those dealers. A few of those dealers also sold home organs and I was really turned off by the prices charged and for the trade-up sales tactics that these dealers practiced. Recently though, my opinion has changed somewhat.

The fact is, for many of these senior citizens going to weekly organ classes is a recreational experience where they get to enjoy the company of others in an environment that is fun. To see these folks share their pride with the rest of the class in purchasing the next level up instrument is heartwarming. Do I think the prices are overboard? Yeah, probably. But on the other hand, it is their money and if they choose to spend it on something that brings them joy and health (yes, I believe in the music wellness program) instead of leaving it to their relatives to squander, then I say more power to them.

As for your �buyer beware� comment, as someone who grew up in a retail environment, the similar statement of �salesman beware� can also be true referring to my earlier comments regarding the practice of trying out here, buying there.

Regards,

Dave

Donny
In college and at sales schools today, the term is marketing strategy. Even if they are ripping you off. Ha! Ha! I agree 100%. Buyer beware! It's a dog eat dog world out there friends. Everything is throw away and get a new one.

Every manufacturer learned or is learning from the computer manufactures. You never get what they have, they sell you what they want. These guys have the market figured out 20 to 50 years ahead of what we�re thinking. We all know that by now.

It's great for the economy but it sucks for the consumer. Figure that one out. I've been trying to since I heard Walter Croncrite say something similar 40 years ago.