Hi I am looking for my first arranger keyboard. I am looking to use this as my master keyboard for my Yamaha EX5R and Creamware Profit5 as well as using it as a fast scratch pad for writing and recording songs using the on-board sequencer.

My main criteria is for a very intuitive interface where I can change sounds in a preset pattern and easily edit a part within a sequence all on the fly.

My second, but just as important criteria is for the onboard arrangements (styles) and third party arrangements to be to my liking. I want bossanova and general latin styles both traditional and contemporary and also electronic type music - eg Depeche mode, Goldfrapp, Air. I realise that the electronica type will be hard to find so I need to be able to create my own styles effortlessly. Lastly I am looking for modern R&B/Hiphop/House and 70s-80s funk styles. I am quite happy to buy many third party additonal styles and would be grateful for recommendations on whether the Roland or Korg is a better bet for these third party styles.

Sorry if I have used some of the incorrect terminology and I hope not to have confused you. Also I have not mentioned any other manufacturers as my main London dealer says that these two are the best. Having a quick play on both the PA1Xpro and the G70, they were both very impressive.

Which would you buy and why? many thanks.

I think you'll find both models will work fairly well for what you want to do. However I'd probably suggest a Korg arranger because the sounds are Triton based. The Triton sound set would fair well for HipHop, R&B, and music like Depeche Mode.

Sounds and styles are always subjective. I suggest you try to find these models in a store and try them out.

Squeak


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-26-2005).]

At first ,I thought you were looking for an entry level keyboard..Then I realized you are considering 2 of the best arrangers on the market..Both will do what you want..Style and sequence editing is easier and better on the Roland..Patch editing edge may go to the Korg[maybe]...My preference, although I have not played one,but I am familiar with the features found on it...G70..

I have played the Korg..I like it ,but not overly impressed with it..The MP3 option would be the only reason I would consider it, personally..

You probably would not need your Yamaha module with either keyboard..but it is most likely a favorite of yours..

Hi and thanks for the replies. Yes I am only interested in the top of the range stuff as I would like a 76 note keyboard and the action has to be very good as it will replace my Roland A50 Master keyboard. I might not keep the EX5R - it certainly is very good at electric piano sounds and many synth type sounds but would let it go if I could replace it with the Korg. I have demod the Yamaha EX5R against the Roland SRX vintage keys and the Yamaha wins the electric keys battle but the Roland wins on the organs, so it stays if I chose Roland. I have sold about 18 synths in the last 18 months so am prepared to let stuff go. I will end up with an arranger and a few other niche things; no way could I just have one keyboard!

I like the EX5R. Although it's quite a few years old, it does have some great features. It also works well for the music you've listed. The Power of the EX-5 and EX-5R is in the voice editing. Plus you can expand the sample memory and add more samples. The capacity of the sequencer is considered small by todays standards. It's funny though that the EX series had a sequencer with a 30,000 note capacity and the PSR-3000 is only 5,000 more.

Arrangers are nice, but I will tell you from my years of experience with trying to compose HipHop, R&B, Rap, Dance, ect on arrangers keyboards has been VERY disappointing. I still feel that arrangers aren't built for these styles of music. For these styles you need a board that uses pattern chaining (since the majority of HipHop ect uses chained patterns).

Also with these styles you have to have a board that will allow you to really twist up the sounds. HipHop for example is a style where the instruments are changing daily. It's a very hard style to keep up with. Plus the board you choose needs to have the ability to edit the drum kits.

Arrangers don't use pattern chaining either. Plus your patterns when taking bass tracks and so forth are limited by the board (because you have to record in a specific key signature to get the auto accomp to work properly).

I have since given up on using arrangers to compose these styles of music. I've owned several great synth/workstations over the years that were great for these styles. I didn't have the EX-5R, but I did have the EX-7, and several others

Squeak

Squeak, I think you can get enough drum /bass variation with Roland's top of the line arrangers[G1000,VA and G70] to handle Hip Hop..
Roland styles can easily be edited to have different pattern for every segment of a style if you need it that way..Also, you can change to any downbeat of the next measure ,to a new style.
Many drum kits are suitable without edits.
And you can EQ to handle any situation..[-12 to +12]..

The workstations are properly named..You have to work pretty long and hard to acheive results that still don't compare with an quality arranger..

I had a Triton Studio 76, and the only decent sequence tracks it could create were sparse Hip Hop type things...I couldn't [didn't want to] use it.

My Roland XP80 was better[I liked the sounds better than Korg]...but it couldn't do the job that my G1000 did..

Squeak, I know you have worked with the lower priced arrangers..Have you had the chance to work with SD1, G1000/VA/G70, Genesys etc...?

I think they are head and shoulders above the entry level keyboards that I am aware you owned in the past[PSR550, WK3500]..

If you are going to compare the workstations[non arranger workstations], we need to compare them to the Arranger workstations..

Both Roland and Korg can do the music you want to do, arrangers not withstanding.

I know the Roland G70 can except one expansion card (of which there are many in the Roland sound library) at one time. I think Korg has something similar also.

Korg has the edge on sound editing but Roland has good compression and eqs which are good for the type of music your doing.

One of the good things about the Korg is that it has a sampler. You can also import wave loops and sync them with styles.

For me, one of the biggest negatives about the Korg is the touch screen. Unless you are very comfortable, that could pose some problems for easy operation. But then again, on the Korg you can remap drum kits to your liking.

I think that using the style creation tool is a good way to start making the type of music you are making. A style is basically a looped pattern and depending on how many variations, fills intros and endings Korg and Roland gives the user; you can have well over 12 parts to a song quickly created. The only down side is that the amount of tracks you can use in a style is limiting. Unless Korg or Roland has it different, they are usually just 8 style tracks.


Because of the hard drive and the sampler I like the Korg. Because of the lack of the touch screen I like the Roland.

I like the fact that both are still adding new features and updating their OS to satisfy their user’s needs. Unlike Some keyboard manufacturers who promise that their keyboards’ OS and features can be upgraded, but don’t actually do it. Instead, they release a newer (but not different) hardware version of the keyboard that just includes the software upgrades that should have been on the older keyboard.

But I digress.
When it comes to which sounds better, it really is going to come down to you testing out both Korg and Roland keyboards and figuring out which one you like and which one would best fit your music.

Happy shopping.

if you want with good seq /sound arranger(though arranger funcs are not that great for realtime for me)get a pa1x (better for that type of music and have a decent sequencer with pattern record and 200,000 note mem)or a triton xetreme(not a arranger but sounds better and warmer and more sounds/rom).

Hi Jupiter4
You say you are prepared to go to high end arranger Keyboards, well although more expensive then the boards you mention, consider the Wersi Ikarus & Lionstracs Media station, as these are software based and you can install VST plug-ins (Soft Synths etc) of which there are many available for all the types of music you require.
Media station probably has the edge at the moment, but with Wersi OAS 7 software due out soon, they will probably be similar, both (Wersi with OAS 7) can also use Giga samples.
Whichever board you get, I would you suggest you get a copy of Style works 2000, which will allow you to covert styles from various keyboards to the one that you own. (Some fine-tuning will be required to get the best results)
With Wersi instruments (And I think also Media station) you can install the program directly on the keyboard.
As an additional point Wersi use OEM versions of the Creamware Pulsar 32 bit dsp cards, and so can accept samples designed for these cards as well as Akai samples.

Bill

Hello again and thanks for the constructive replies, I really do appreciate it. I also appreciate that you either prefer the sound of the Korg or that of the Roland. At this stage I am neutral and if we could focus on features and working style it would be really helpful to me.

More thoughts. I like the fact that the Roland G70 can have an SRX card and the sounds can be used in a style - this could be very useful. On the other hand the Korg being able to import sample loops sounds good but I have never used samples before - are they auto beat-matched, can you change tempo without pitch and can they be used as part of a style? Could I import my own samples ie record someting from any source as a .wav file?

8 Tracks of instrumentation on either keyboard is more than enough for a style. I actually want to play live into the sequencer in addition to this and also to sequence my other sounds modules and synths using the Korg or Roland sequencer. I see the style as a basic backing band with me doing all lead and most (non-guitar) rythmn stuff live.

On sound editing the Korg only seems to have one more synth parameter than the Roland but I have not checked out the effects yet, I will do this today.

It is interesting to hear the thoughts about whether an arranger can be used for the type of music that I want to do. If I can use it just as a sequencer without using any styles other than drums and it is way easier than the Motif or Fantom - is it easier? - then I can live with that.

If I am limited to only being able to create 12 different 'loops' to use within a style this is also ok as I really only want to use the styles as basic backing and will play live over the top with additional layers stored in the on-board sequencer. So long as both arrangers allow me to do this it will not be a problem at all.I think that they both have 16 tracks so this is enough. I notice that the Korg has two sequencers but am not sure of the benefit of this.

The Korg does have a touch screen and it works fine. I prefer the position of the sliders being under the screen on the Roland from an ergonomic point of view but this is not essential.

Can anyone comment on the availability of third party styles for the type of music that I want to do. Are they easier to find for the Roland or Korg. Watching the Yamaha Tyros online video I was thinking oh my, this is not what I want at all until he started on a few 'dance' pieces but the Tyros as presented was far from the type of music that I want to do. Whilst I know that I can customise the styles I would like to have a few hundred of each style so that my music is not too samey.

The other thing about the styles is that I would like good variation between the variations, meaning that on the Roland I think that there was not that much variation - just more instrumentation based on the same groove? I might be mistaken and will play again today to be sure. My preference would be to have different chords and notes played, particularly for the chorus. On the Roland, and maybe the Korg, the other thing that I noticed was that the third and forth variation invariably meant that the drumming really picked up the pace which is something that I would not always want. On that point, what is drum editing like on both machines? Step or live?

Based on this further update from me does this narrow it down a bit, or are they both neck and neck? Thank you.