Bill

Bill thanks, had never heard of Wersi until now. I had a quick look at the their site but it is in German and the US site does not have any worthwhile info. It might be good, particularly if they are using Creamware OEM stuff. How does it compare to the others bearing in mind my latest post that crossed with yours? Where can I get more info in English please - I am happy to Google but do not have much time today. Do you know if they are available in the UK. Many thanks.

Jamman not really interested in a workstation along the line of a Triton or Fantom - I really want to use auto styles and this would appear to mean only the Pa1X or G70 especially as I want hands on dedicated controls to operate this type of playing. Thanks.

Sorry, should have said that I also want to be able to edit drum styles by replacing individual drum sounds in the sytle ie only change the snare sound . Thanks.

Hi Jupiter4
I will have a good read of your message later as I am quite busy at the moment, but the Uk agent for Wersi is, “Daniel Watt” danielwatt@delapre.fsnet.co.uk they also have just appointed a dealer in the UK, Harmony Music of Boston.

Harmony Music
17 – 17a West Street
Boston
Lincs PE21 8QN
01205 355366
(Web site has yet to be updated)

If you are anywhere near Caister on Sea (Just above Gt Yarmouth) then the Caister Organ & Keyboard Festival is on from the 30-09-05 to 7-10-05, with open days designated as the 1st & 2nd of October, which means you will be able to try the Wersi Ikarus, (Not sure if OAS 7 will be showcased) Roland G70 OS2 (Debuts on the Sunday, (Although should be on the stand Saturday) KorgPa1x Elite, (Including plus pack) Tyros 2 (Public World Premier on the Saturday) and not forgetting the Ketron SD1, so you will be able to try them all in one place.
Will include further details of the Wersi instruments when I have more free time.

Bill

Hi Jupiter4
I have PA1X since July 2004. It´s a pleasure to play it every day. The most important in this keyboard it´s the capability to customize it (You can delete all factory styles and sounds that you don´t like, and reload just that you like). With a EC5 pedal and songbook you can play live very easy. But, I don´t like the piano sound. So, I had to buy the Piano Assault from Sharp.(http://www.irishacts.com). Very soon I´m planning to buy a decent piano (Clavia Nord Stage or Yamaha S90ES).
The G70 it´s a good keyboard, I tried it several times, but and didn´t like the styles.
Just my opinion.
Regards
Franky

Posted by Fran:
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Squeak, I think you can get enough drum /bass variation with Roland's top of the line arrangers[G1000,VA and G70] to handle Hip Hop..
Roland styles can easily be edited to have different pattern for every segment of a style if you need it that way..Also, you can change to any downbeat of the next measure ,to a new style.
Many drum kits are suitable without edits.
And you can EQ to handle any situation..[-12 to +12]..
--------------------------------------

Fran, I have to disagree with this. To do decent HipHop, R&B, ect you'll need to edit drums regardless. For some time HipHop, Rap, and R&B was all that I was writing. I was making a few bucks to the side while in college writing for other students.

A sampler is also important. The user needs to be able to import (individual drum sounds) to create user kits

Also the board MUST have top quality synth sounds, and the ability to create user voices that contain multiple elements.

HipHop and so forth are styles that are changing every day. It's not like Rock, Blues for example where the same instruments can be used over and over.

Squeak

I just want to add this too. I honestly have yet to hear any arranger keyboard pull off some REAL funk music. Sure they've done a fairly decent job here and there, but what makes funk music so distinctive is that "wha' guitar. I'm not talking about the cheesy wha guitar you hear in arranger funk styles either. I'm talking about that wha guitar that so distinctive, that when you hear it you know that's down right "funk".

The guitar sound needs (scratch that I should say MUST) have that classic wha guitar where not only is the sound driven by the wha effect, but also by the strumming (meaning that funky strum with the pick sound) needs to also be in there.

Squeak

Well if you are going to consider the Mediastation and Wersi, for the type of music you are going to do (and for any type of music really), those keyboards could be what you need.
Always taking in to account, with hip-hop and other type of urban music it is not the sound source that matters as much as how creative you are with the sound.

Not that the Roland and Korg are bad but because of their closed OS their sounds and styles are limited. With the Wersi and Mediastation, you would be able to use giga samples and other high-quality samples on the keyboard with a generous sample memory.

The only thing is that there are not that many reviews on them so unless you are like some persons, and going to buy it like how some persons are buying the Tyros II, you would be best served to try and get some time playing with them taking a look at the OS and the key feel.

Dear all, thank you so much for all of the replies, they really helped me today in checking out the things that you said. I spent two hours playing the G70 and Pa1X and here are my conclusions.

Firstly the G70. At times very intuitive and at others frustrating until you work out how to do things. Some nice touches such as the draw bars for tweaking sounds and the organ mode. Some of the piano sounds were ok and the organs were great. On the downside some of the features did not work as expected. The Decay slider in the amplifier envelope has little or no effect and this seriously hampers you. Also the amp filter does not work like a normal amp filter. You should get no sound with attack, decay and release at zero but there is a constant sustain that you do not have access to - not good. The main thing those was the quality of the voices, especially the synth voices. I uswed to have many vintage synths such as minimoog, Jupiter 6, Arp Axxe, MKS80, etc etc and I have to say that Roland have played it very safe and gone for inoffensive sounds. they do not sound very authentic at all. Very disappointing. The styles were ok but I ws not set alight. The SRX board cannot be used in the styles at present but can with OS 2 but there is no guarantee that it will work well. I would not pay £700 for this board let alone the £2400 that it is selling for in the UK.

On to the Korg PA1X. WOW! Deep synth programming and very convincing sounds. Very, very surprised as I have always been a Roland man since 1985. The styles were ok and seemed to have more variation than the Roland ones. I particularly liked the dedicated octave switches and fill in switches, also that each time you select a voice the editing screen automatically opens. There were other things as well that I liked but cannot remember them. The downside was that the sliders were not up to the Roland quality in feel and usage.

In short the Korg won quite easily. I have been using a Roland MC909 and now that I am set on the Korg will see if this is still valid or if the MC909 will go up for sale. At £2500 for the PA1XPro it is a hell of a lot of money. More than I think it is worth. I think that it is worth £2000 on a comparative basis with other pro audio gear. So do I go for a PA80 instead or just try and get a PA1XPro second hand? I will open another thread.

many thanks again for the very helpful advice.

Squeak, can you email me an example[MP3]of a Hip Hop/R and B/Funk..that you believe can't be done on an arranger..I would like to give it a shot on the G1000...to see why you think it can't be done..
Especially if you have a sequence originating from a Triton or Motif..even a Fantom...
I think I could duplicate any sound from the forementioned synths..

I took this challenge with a Korg i30 owner a few years ago[a cha cha pattern with a rhodes piano and a fingered bass]. He couldn't pick out the i30 from the G1000..

Give it a shot ..send me a short MP3.
I will try and get the same feel[not duplicate it..Hip Hop is not my type of music, so I can't take too much..maybe R and B or Funk..].

I will record a small MP3 and email it back to you..

Just an experiment..one of us will be right..