Hi,
Having owned all the keyboards mentioned, I now have the PA 80 as my only board. I also have a Triton Rack still. If anyone is interested in the sound difference for their own ears, I have samples from all of them on my site. http://terry95829.tripod.com/terrynewagejazz/id4.html
Here's what to look for:
A couple are full length, sorry for the download time, but I think you'll get a good feel for how the different boards sound.
On the latest work page (the link above:
"Rebirth" is done on my PA80
"Love After Dark" on a Motif
Short cuts on the recent work page
"Strugglin' To Survive"
"On The Fringe" both done on the Karma I had.
On the samples from several cd's page:
"Brazilian Blue"
"In A Trance" Were both done on a PSR 9000.
In answer to the other post, here's my take on the different boards having come full circle. I started with the 9000, thought I was missing something and traded it in on the Karma got bored with and hated the cutting edge sounds in it and traded it in on a Motif, thinking it would be mellower having owned the 9000. It really isn't, I think a lot of the sounds like the pianos and such are great, but over all again way to cutting edge for what I do. Anyway, traded the Motif in on the PA 80 and I love it.
Here's some of the things I realized along the way, first by a board who's sounds fit the type of music you are doing. I think the Motif and Karma are much more suited for techno, hip hop, dance music and like that.
I think the 9000 and the PA 80 are much more suited to easier listening things.
The PA 80 does have a lot of the Triton sounds, but also has a lot more mellower easy listening sounds, which are suited to my work, which is latin to contemporary jazzish, with the occasional venture into new age jazz.
The other MAJOR difference to me is, are you an arranger or workstation sort of person? The arrangers are far far easier to operate, albeit, they are more limited. The work stations are far far more complex, to the average person. If you're a techie perhaps it'll be fine, if not you're in for some real frustrating hours. I've been there and finally realized, I'm an arranger sort of guy.
Hope this helps and enjoy, if you listen to my work,
Terry

Terry---too cool---very classy---great job---thanks for sharing,sounds great.
Bill E

Bill,
Thanks for the kind words. What type of work do you do? On what?
Terry

Terry,

You said you thought you were missing something with the 9000. Do you still think that and if you do what is it that you were missing? Do you feel the same way about the PA-80?

I would much rather spend my limited amount of time playing rather than programming. That's why I guess I'm an arranger guy. Also my generation has been conditioned for instant gratification. An arranger board gives me that.

Tom

Tom,
I didn't know what I was missing, I just felt through the music snobs of workstation vs arranger, that I must be missing the boat, serious composers/real musicians are using workstations, not arrangers.
Once I went into the workstations though Karma and Motif....what I was missing was headaches and frustration.
I'll stick to the arrangers, like my PA 80, I can't forsee me every crossing back over the line to a workstation again, I think they're a lot more hype then value to me.
I find the arranger to be far more inspirational to me and I get a lot more musical work done.
If the workstation snobs want to look down their nose at me for using an arranger, first, I don't care what they think and secondly they're missing the point entirely, it's all about just making music, ie., the end justifies the means. A good tune is a good tune, period. On top of which I think the workstation crowd is being pretty hypocritical. They use overdubbing and whatever is in the bag of tricks on their boards, it's not like they are reinventing music or going out and buying and learning how to play every instrument on the recording. How many of them learn how to play an orchestra full of stinged instruments when they put strings on their cut, from their workstations.....zero. They're using what tools and technology is available to them, the same as we arrangers are. I don't see many of them starting with a bare bones board building every sound they use from scratch, no, like us they push a button and pick a pre done sound too.
OK, I'm done,
Terry

Terry

I really enjoyed your last post on the gulf between workstation and arranger folks. As a serious musician who only plays out as a secondary line of work - its pretty obvious to me having owned different synths and workstations - that I don't have the time and inclination to tweak knobs to make 'art' - particularly since you are 100% right about what musicians are doing - making music and the quality of that is totally subjective in the listeners ear. The challenge for me - having played some of these and not yet owning one - is how can I use the keyboard in a very traditional jazz music genre - and not make it sound too canned - which for me and considering the demos I've heard - is the greatest challenge to using these keyboards to their potential-

Mike H

I find for myself that the PA80 is the closest thing for me to a hybrid of an arranger and a workstation without being a true workstation. There are plenty of fat and "experimental, dance etc type synth samples and sounds in it and the synth edit capabilities rival that of some "pro" workstations, yet I can summon up many "traditional" sounds in it as well at the touch of a button, and I find these sounds to be very usable as they are, most sound excellent to me and require no editing at all. Sometimes I DO like to play with sounds, and the capability is certainly there, but more often than not I want just to play and compose, and the PA80 makes it easy for me. If I wanted a true synth that makes some nasty sounds, with the tweak of a knob or two or ten to mess with in real time, the truth is, for me most of the "pro" workstations will fare no better for me anyway. That's when I start looking at things like the Nord lead or MS2000. Other than that, give me a top end arranger any time, as simplicity is the key for me as well, and my only complaint if I had any with the PA80 would be that it might be a bit complictaed to operate were I to play as a solo act in a real time setting, as opposed to let's say the PSR series, but since this is not my primary use of this board, I'm very happy with it, and would find it very easy to use as a gigging musician in a regular band. I find it very easy to use in my studio as a great compositional tool as well. If the so called "pro" guys can't deal with it, that's their problem, I couldn't care less. I have been playing for well over 30 yrs both as a pro and at home, and at this stage of my life, "status" by brand name or type doesnt mean squat to me. It's all about the music and what I feel comfortable with.

In all honesty though, for more complex jazz or jazz fusion pieces that I want to write, the styles make great scratch pads for ideas and for listening to chord progressions, but that is usually as far as i go with them. I generally transpose my ideas into real time playing of sevral of the instruments, and let a program like Jammer pro do the drums for me, as I am not proficient enough at programming or real time playing on the drums. I do find the styles to be a bit constrained it that manner, but very useful for other stuff, sometimes even better for me with an edit here or an edit there to the style itself. Sometimes I use the style just as it is too, it just depends on what I'm doing musically at the time and the mood of the piece and whether I feel the need to put a more "personal" stamp ( ie my own arrangements ) on the piece or song.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-07-2001).]

Mike & Bluz,
I think we're all on the same page here. And Bluz like you, I've been hanging around music for about 30 too.
I'm currently working on my 42nd cd and having a good 'ol time, while the snobs I spoke of earlier, are playing covers in dive bars to drunks who couldn't care less whether it was a band or the juke box playing and like you guys too I'm sure, I've been there, no thanks.
I enjoy now, doing it all myself in my own studio and painting my own picture.
Allthough, a lot of these guys may be much better players than me...success, is a personal thing and we all need to judge that for ourselves. To one, it may be to be on MTV to another.....just the completion of another tune that they're happy with. I now fall into the later catagorey and am having so much more personal satisfaction from the music than I've ever had.
If you guys get a chance, drop by my site, I'd respect your input on my work. http://terry95829.tripod.com/terrynewagejazz/
catch 'ya on the flipside,
Terry



[This message has been edited by Jocko (edited 11-07-2001).]

Terry-you asked what I do and with what?
well---I write songs from country to rock and I amuse myself with instumental "compositions" from space to techno!
I have an old korg dw8000-broken,an alesis sr16 drum macine-broken,a tascam portistudio-broken! All of my gear works somewhat--some of the time!
I have three good guitars!
I am trying to buy an arranger that will suit both my songwriting efforts and let me play wild synth stuff! Not very likely on one board so I will focus on arranger for now,and dream of an Andromeda or a Waldorf Q! I have yet to find the right arranger-I want realistic backing tracks but they may not exist yet.I am quite sure that they will someday but so far I am disappointed with what I have found.
Bill E

Bill,
Sounds like when your lottery # hits, you need to invest some of the bucks in new equipment.
Sounds like your genre runs a wide range. I tried to write a country tune once, but alas, no pick up truck, no broken heart, no dog, no bar room brawls... I just didn't have any material to work from.
Besides, I'm kind of partial to the easy listening yuppie wallpaper stuff I write, so I'd better stick with what I know.
Terry