The Gear Hog thread got me to thinkin'.

I really hate to charge different prices for different kinds of jobs, but the reality is that some jobs require a whole lot more work and gear than others...and budgets for a lot of parties are based on the number of people expected to attend. On Peak demand nights (weekends and holidays) I don't vary my price. But I find off nights have to be negotiable in order for me to be competitive and get the work.

For the bulk of the jobs (100-200 people for 3 - 4 hours) I use a PA system (Amp, two JBL 1500s, & 10" monitor), MP3 player, 2 or 3 mics and 1 KB, stands for the mics, music and KB. Set up and sound check takes about 35-45 minutes.

Small house parties, nursing homes, etc require only KB, stand, 1 mic and a powered speaker. Set up time: maybe 5-10 minutes.

Here's the rub.
Sunday night (not a high demand night) I took a job where my employer said the crowd would be about 50 ppl and the budget was very tight and they only wanted background type music. Rather than sit home, I took the job for less than half my rate and set up only the minimal gear.

SURPRISE: 125 ppl showed up. I won't go into all the details, but they wanted mics for announcements, sing-alongs and back up music for a skit they had planned plus all kinds of dance requests. I kept a game face and tried to go with the flow...wishing all the time I had my full gear.

My regret is that I felt they deserved better than I was prepared to give..and I felt duped into providing more than they were willing to pay for. I don't blame the crowd...but I will not let the guy who hired me talk me into another "discounted" job.

Short of not being negotiable in pricing, how would you try to avoid this happening to you?

Eddie

[This message has been edited by btweengigs (edited 12-09-2002).]

"Minimal gear" may be the question here. I've been caught in similar situations and now I have one essential setup for most solo appearances: my keyboard, keyboard stand/bench, 2 small powered speakers, some lights. The keyboard acts a PA rig since it has mic input and internal mixer/eq so I don't have an external mixer. I can do my normal show with this. Setup is 15 minutes flat with a sound check and takedown is the same.

This rig is also my excuse for not doing many things such as allowing guest singers or other nonsense. I have one mic and one cable that is only long enough to reach from my keyboard stand mic adapter to the keyboard (plus a spare just like it). No CD players (I have break-music midi files).

This eliminates surprises and anything that I am not prepared to accomodate should be blamed on poor planning on the client's part. I do have a full PA and can provide it at competitive rates.

Some people will try anything to get you to do more, a lot more, than what you've been hired/paid to do. I'd go up to the comfort level of obliging your clients with the true minimal equipment you have brought and after that I'd begin judicious use of the word "no". If that's not good enough for them, they are only out to rip you off anyway.

btweengigs ... I've (and I would think many others) have had very similar experiences ...

One place I worked at often used the 'piano lounge' as a room for private parties, MUSIC INCLUDED ... Actually, that was one of their selling points ..... And if a private party was in there, I often could't have my own guests, at least until after dinner was served....
Now, I was making $150 a night, Fri and Sat, which for a steady gig wasn't bad, but a lot of these private parties felt they had hired the music as well, and would have all the 'special requests' etc. ...

For one in particular, the owner of the restaurant/lounge calls me on Wed and asks me to contact the person who was having a 50th birthday party for her hubby on Fri, and had a special request .... Well, I make the call, and the 'special request' is about 15 tunes that they want played for a "This is Your Life" routine they were going to do....
What to do ?!?!? .... I could have easily said I wasn't hired by them, and couldn't comply with their wishes, but I was sure the owner had said I could ... So, where does that leave me??? If I don't do it, it only reflects on me, as no one is going to know anything other than "the kb player wouldnt/couldn't play anything we wanted" ... Of course I explained to the woman what my price for a private party would be, but that was to no avail... "I was told the music was INCLUDED" ..
So I did the gig to the best of my ability, downloading tunes from the net as much as I could, .... The crowd had a GREAT time and I got all kinds of compliments from the woman who ran the party, the guests, even the r/l owner ... AND NOT ONE CENT IN TIPS!!! ...
This practice was one of the reasons I wanted out of there.....
t.

Been there myself.. Several years back the blues band I played in got this type of crap all the time. The money was decent, and I was able to use it as my only income.. (Sure miss those days...) We played numerous gigs where we were told a specific number of people, and then later to find out it was twice what we were told. After a while we just said the hell with it and started lugging ALL of our equipment around in the van for cases like that. It is funny how people seem to think keyboardist know EVERY song out there and get pissed off if you don't know the request. I've also played several solo gigs where I was duped quite a bit.. I think my best solo gig I did was a small wedding anniversary where I only had to provide a total of a 1/2 hour of music. Got a free meal, and $200.00 cash from it.. The only gear I had was a keyboard, stand and speakers....

Squeak

A contract spelling out what you will or will not provide and a fee list for anything other is good business practice. 1 special request is one thing, beyond that......it's like any other special services.....you want to order more off the menu, here's what it costs.

You're right though in the end, it reflects on the artist they wouldn't / couldn't so, we're between a rock and a hard place......no tips, why of course not "the music was included."

The sad thing is with most of these types of gigs, we're just a cut above a jukebox.

Lady, the music is included and here's what that means anything beyond that = $
jam on,
Terry

Terry .. A contract is absolutley a good business practice, but there aren't many restaurant/lounge venues that will sign a contract .... not here in RI anyway ..... most of the time it's a verbal month to month thing, and 'if I don't say otherwise, you're here next month' ..... Even with a contract with a r/l owner, how often have we heard "oh, they only want a couple of requests, what's the big deal?' .... but do THEY change the menu at no add't cost??? ..

squeak ... There's always that type of gig that comes along to keep us coming back for more, right? ... In other threads I've talked about how I don't get paid for the PERFORMANCE, but for what it takes to put it on .... You can say that you only 'played' for a 1/2 hour, but how long did you 'WORK' for it? .....
And you're also right about the assumption that the kb player knows or somehow should be able to play EVERY request ....
Funniest thing, even my own mom, who has been a terrific singer through the years and at 89 can still belt them out, God Bless her, has said to me, when I've said I don't know a particular tune, "Just play the chords"... All these years, she still can't be convinced that's the hardest part!
t.

These tales are ALL TOO common, and if it hasn't happened to you yet ..... don't worry - it WILL.

The best advise I ever got about this business was to "Be flexible". Sounds vague, but it's true. The gear, the playlist, the hours ..... all these things are subject to change at a moment's notice.

Some of my most favorite times are when the unexpected takes over. It's like the defense intercepting a pass and running in for the touchdown. You have to be READY for that possibility all the time.

If you look at averages ...... I'll bet 90% of your jobs (ok, ok GIGs!!!! ) are well within the limits and conditions of your preparation. Maybe even 95%. If you bet the odds ( a WISE move )you should carry the gear needed to accomodate this 90% mark, and always have a built in "backup" or secret weapon at your avail.( more gear in the car, CD backups of tunes etc...)

This year, I only remember two times that I regretted not having both speakers at a party, and in retrospect ....... I'm glad I didn't carry them in because the only time they wanted "more" was in the last 20 minutes of the party anyway.
It helps to know your crowd and know the room before you set up, but if a surprise arises ...... go with it as best you can. Give it your best shot and maybe it will turn into other opportunites for you.

I rate parties as a success or failure based on the number of business cards I hand out .... NOT the money or the laffs!

It's not much different than any other performance career ..... you are only as good as your LAST perfromance. So make each one really count !

I forgot about all those years in the restaurant/lounge scene. Job security was always the carrot, but some change is inevitable...they just didn't want to have to pay the price of a 1-nighter.

Believe it or don't, but I actually had one restaurant owner who would tack on an "entertainment charge" for parties that came in as a large group and put it in my cup, knowing I would have to cater to them more than the general public. I never solicit tips...but the owner often did, on my behalf. That was truly a rare case.

So, its not all bad news.

How about travel? Do you charge for it? Most of my work is within a 30 mile radius. Outside of that boundry I try to adjust the fee to reflect time and travel. Sometimes it even works.

90% of the private jobs are all under written contract. Restaurant/Lounges in these parts will not sign...but I don't have the steady kind of time they want anyway because most of the private jobs are booked up to a year in advance which automatically takes me out of the R/L circuit on weekends and many weekdays.

Eddie

UD's right again. Just go with the flow. This bad stuff even happens in brickwork. Years ago I got mad and it came to getting in the guy's face and that works in construction. Of course I had a 350lb son with me sometimes, Ha! Ha! I always got my money.

However, as I got older I got smarter. I'd keep my mouth shut and sure enough they would call me back because I was easy. But the next time I'd charge a little more. After about 2 more next times I got my money back and after that it was like getting a raise because I never did lower my price down again. That system works best.

Just get through the job (ok ok gig),like Uncle Dave said, but don't let it happen again. Be prepared next time and get a bit more.

At least your not moving 375lb bundles of brick around not to mention lots of cement, sand, scaffold and plank etc. Music sounds easy now eh?

Do like Dave and have a good time. At least he seems to really enjoy what he's doing. Don't get so up tight. One bad job (ok!ok! one bad gig) isn't the end of the world. Sometimes I got stuck on a bad brick job for weeks. Eight hours a day five or six days a week. Talk about misery!!!

UD,
Good points all and I agree.
Terry