Hi,

I'm recently recorded a song using the internal sequencer of the SD1. It sounds great. Then I wanted to play the sequence on Cakewalk. I already have the instrument definition file installed.

The problem is that some voices cannot be accessed via midi, or at least, I can't find how.

The same midi file that I copied from the keyboard's hard disk is being played on cakewalk. For example, the Gold Trumpet sound cannot be accessed. Instead of it, what I get is another trumpet sound, which appears to be the regular GM trumpet sound.

I noticed that Bank 0(A), where the Golden Trumpet is located, is the same bank number than the GM sounds. Why? How can I access the banks separately?

Why the same midi file sounds different played from the PC than directly on the keyboard?

Am I doing something wrong or this is the way it is supposed to be?

Thanks in advance,
Guillermo.

Are you using styles to record with ?

or are you doing all 16 tracks individually ?

dano

Dan01,

I get the same results if using styles or not. Supose that it is a 1-track 1-voice song, using the "Wiener" strings. If I play the sequence on the keyboard, everything is ok. But playing the same midi file on the PC and sent to the sd1 via midi, the "wiener" strings are replaced by the general midi strings voice.

Thanks,
Guillermo.

I use midi and cakewalk (sonar) since 1 year.
I not undertand all but I say you:
- sounds called VOICE in the SD-1 are multiple layer 1,2,3 or 4 of GM sounds, played simultaneous, with different volume panoramic velocity... for exemple the PIANO sound in the SD-1 use 3 GM sounds : Piano 1, Piano 2 panned each one, one side, and in the extrem bass, a sound called Sub bass. When you press a SD-1 key, you play 3 sounds simultenous and in a midi environment, It send in 3 midi chanels : ch 13, ch 14 and ch 15.
I dont know how play for exemple the piano sounds of SD-1 (3 chanels) plus the STRINGS sound (3 another chanels) and recall it in the cakewalk midifile.
In midi environement, use only GM sounds. patterns use them, midifiles use them...
but gm sounds are pour comparatively to SD1 VOICE PRESTS
But for you :

modifiy in the cakewalk property track the selection of back to CONTROLER 0 and all sound good.
I save my project in format of cakewalk not midi format. try this...

Ketron AJ,

Help !!

I've been trying to access the BANK A voices via midi and I still can't. All I get are the GM standard voices.

Thanks,
Guillermo.

Mike,

Obviously, Cakewalk is playing the SD1 connected to a midi port, not the sound card on the pc.

I just can't access some sounds via external midi on the sd1, specially all bank 0 sounds (Wiener, Gold Trumpet, etc...).

What I want to know is if those sounds have something "special" so they can't be played via external midi and only from the keyboard internal sequencer.

thanks,
Guillermo.

So from what I'm gathering from this, you cannot use the best voices in midi files? That sucks. :-(

Correct. You cannot access the same voices that you play on the keyboard via midi. It's simple. Someone posted before that some voices are made of 2,3 or 4 different voices, which are layered or split on the keyboard.

I've been trying to use the "Golden trumpet" via midi, and I just can't. The reason is that "Golden trumpet" is made of two other trumpets, and it's almost impossible to create the same sound via midi even using the same two trumpets on two different channels.

I've had many other keyboards which also have sounds made of many voices, and which can be accessed via a single midi channel with no problems. The most complex keyboard I have is the Alesis QuadraSynth Plus Piano, which has beautiful voices. Each voice is made of up to 4 different sounds and play it via midi easily.

Ketron AJ, do you have any comments?

Thanks,
Guillermo.

re: using midi-in to access preset voices

Although I am not exactly sure how it is accomplished best - the fact that midi accordions are used in conjunction with Ketron products should make it obvious that midi-in accesses the best (preset) voices on the SD1. I have tried playing the SD from my Roland FP3 because I am used to acoustic piano action - it took me a bit to find out how to access those sounds - but it was definitely doable - and I will try to recreate it. Surely internal midi-file recording through the sequencer or song record functions allows one to access the preset voices - so it isn't likely that access will be denied from controller keyboards or remote sequencer.

Just a side note here - not completely related - I believe that physical access to the most important parameters of the SD1 is fully functional. - One place they can upgrade and benefit the most I believe is enabling seamless and simultaneous tempo/beat coordinated interplay between midi-files (as songs or song parts) and live arranger play. This sort of integration might do wonders for the arranger keyboard - keeping a standard rhythm section w/ variations for a tune - and then bringing in a pre-recorded backing at will - something that could be re-done at anytime without having to redo the whole tune. Oh well - that's where my head is at.

BTW - I think the SD1 is nothing short of phenomenal - and with tons of upside potential in OS changes

Mike H

@All
I hope nobody will be offended by the following remarks. They reflect just my own humble observations based on a series of tests and an information from the hotline I once received. I would love if somebody could show me where I'm thick: the way
I have to create midifile causes me sometimes some head-shaking.

My own procedure to work with the SD1 I described in this old thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/003059.html

I think there IS a difference in controlling the SD1 with a midifile or with an accordion:
The SD1 has 2 soundgenerations, each one has its own 16 midi channels. One is used by the SD1 internally or MIDI INPUT 2, which is set by default to INTERNAL, one by a midifile
or MIDI INPUT 1, which is set by default to GM. (I hope I didn't mix it up, as I don't have the manual with me in the office). This has the advantage, that one can play a midifile and play life completely different sounds on the keyboard.

Using an accordion means, that one uses external keys instead of the SD1 own keys, but the sound is selected by the normal buttons on the SD1; the accordion's midi logic doesn't submit sound information.

Using a midifile means, that every channel is carrying the information what sound shall be selected. Out of the 5 (or 7) banks with preset sounds only banks A - C can be selected via a midifile (I was told and it seems to be true). Valid for defining a sound patch in a midifile are not the preset banks A - C mentioned in the manual, but the GM banks A - C (the following pages in the manual). If one compares the sound definitions of the preset banks A - C with those of the GM banks A - C, one realises, that there a slight differences: not all preset sounds exist in the GM tables and for those which exist, the sound number doesn't necessarily correspond. After this confusion there is a next one: there are preset sounds which correspond 1:1 to a GM sound,
others are made out of 2 - 3 GM sounds.

Recording e.g. a PIANO sound with the internal sequencer (irrespective whether played with the SD1 or an accordion) shows, that the original nice one-button-sound is spread over 3 tracks / channels on the midifile (see DAN.2000's post) with 3 different GM piano sounds). It is possible to generate a midifile with the original PIANO sound, provided 3 tracks / channels playing simultaneously the same notes are programmed the same way, as the internal sequencer shows these 3 tracks: assignment of GM sounds, effects, panning etc. must be equal. If one records a preset sound, which is made of sounds of the preset banks D, E, F e.g., the sequencer takes corresponding sounds from the GM banks A-C. All that causes me sometimes head-shaking.

Sorry for the long thread, if anybody knows a better work-around I'd love it. (I apologize to Ketron_AJ if I misunderstood the whole concept!)

Hansruedi

Hansruedi & Mike,

Thanks for your comments. I'll keep on research about making midi files easier with the expected quality for the preset sounds.

I hope someone from Ketron can clarify our doubts.

I agree that the SD1 is a great keyboard, but the midi implementation (and the explanations on the manual) could be seriously improved.

Guillermo.

Hi Guillermo
Yeah let me know if you find anything out,I really would be interested.

It is the second time I discuss a thread like this and I'd appreciate if Ketron_AJ
could bring in some light; and if it was only "Yeah, you're on the right track"

Rgds Hansruedi

Hi All,

I have just had a reply from Ketron that may be of interest with this topic. If you use the GM for your midi file and then play along via the SD1's keyboard or a midi instrument i.e. accordion, then it is possible to change the sounds for the accordion without any button presses but via a sysex command buried in the midi file. I haven't tried them yet but the sysex commands I have been sent are:
1)F0 26 7B 30 00 01 F7 to switch to keyboard

2)F0 26 7B 30 00 00 F7 to switch to midi
The patch changes can then be inserted between the two sysex commands.

John Romero.

Thanks for the tip dear John. Looks to be an interesting idea, to play live and just switch preset buttons via a midifile.

Rgds
Hansruedi