Folks I have a quesiton and I'm not sure if anyone has tried this yet or if it's even an option on the Tyros 2.

In regards to the new SA voices-specifically the nylon/classical/acoustic guitars-can you adjust velocity curve settings to cancel out "individual" nuances?

Here's the problem, and I consider this a "real" problem because (I personally as a guitarist) know that the nuances in the SA guitars aren't exactly correct. Let's face it, either the nuance is correct or it's not.

These new SA guitars have string "sliding noise". Most often called "Fret Noise". (Even though fret noise is technically the wrong term for this particular nuance)

If I'm playing a live guitar, and just playing simple chords such as going from D to G--using the standard hand position there is NO string noise between these chord changes, yet it's present and "very" obvious on the T2, and people are so willing to accept this as sounding correct--when it's not.

Why did the Yamaha engineers add this nuance when switching between basic chords on the T2? Regardless of how nice it sounds to others, it doesn't belong there. Even going from single notes to other single notes produces string slide noise even if the distance from one note to the next is minimal. (this can be seen in one of the T2 video demos).

Did Yamaha just assume that the chords you'll use will always be bar chords? You can't even properly finger pick from one basic chord to another on the T2 without the board addind the noise.

Can this be adjusted? I don't want to upset the T2 owners out ther, but hey I'll say it again, it's either correct or it's not.

Squeak

they did it simply to make the instrument sound more authentic which it certainly does. It is not done to make the instrument sound and play exactly like a guitar as that simply is imossible on any keyboard.There was no need for yamaha to model the instrument to the nth degree because it wold not have added any more realism to the listener. There are no actual hand slide visual movement as far as the listener is concerned and hey wont know what chord changes triggers a slide sound from which would not.All they know i that the hand slide "sounds " appropriate . Sometimes we are overly analytical in these matters. think back to the first tike you heard the T2 demos and at classical guitar....didnt it just blow you away ??? thats exactly what it does to your audience the first time they here it. To them your instrument is still a magic box of tricks that can emulate guitars, saxes etc.

I agree with spalding.

You have an easy solution. Just don't use the Guitar SA voices. The regular LIVE voices have the same realism without all the extra gimmicks.

Chony

I wouldn't change a thing about the SA guitars.
I just love 'em...especially the "Concert Guitar"...absolutely perfectly imperfect.

Ian the Contented

Posted by Spalding,

--------------------------------------------
There are no actual hand slide visual movement as far as the listener is concerned and hey wont know what chord changes triggers a slide sound from which would not.All they know i that the hand slide "sounds " appropriate .
--------------------------------------------

You see this is my point. Do you have any idea how insulting that is to your crowd to take that position. A performer shouldn't take the position that the audience doesn't know any better. When you're performing, even though it's you performing, 9 times out of ten you're not the only one in the room who is a musician.

I just think it's wrong to assume your audience doesn't know any better. You'd be surprised how many people out there listening to you are fellow musicians.

There's a fine line between being picky, and a sound just being wrong. You gotta draw the line somewhere, but it's very wrong to assume your listeners think it's appropriate.

And no the guitars didn't "blow" me away. The saxes however made me wet my pants You have to take into consideration that the odds of several guitarists listening to you play are very high (the guitar is a very popular instrument). From the first time I heard the SA voices I knew they were wrong.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-12-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-12-2006).]

You are correct Squeak.

The Saxes are excellent.

I also loved the Trumpets...simply deluxe.

Ian the Contented.

My 'understanding' is that the fret noise is added on a time basis(perhaps random, I do not know)and is not triggered by individual chords.

The T2 is not a guitar and does not claim to be. But it does come closer (in my hearing, which is not all that good anymore) than any other synth that I have owned. They may have a way to go for true realism (however, they are making progress), but I am grateful that they made it thus far.

Regards,

Michael

I still don't agree with you Squeak,

The Tyros is not a guitar -- its a keyboard. A sax and trumpet player would also find problems with the way the SA effects work on those instruments. How on earth could you expect the keyboard to know if you are playing fretted or open chords?

My experience with guitarists is that they are absolutely blown away with the Tyros guitars. There's probably a simple reason for that: They don't expect them to be perfect -- guitar technique has almost nothing in common with a piano technique -- so how could it be?

With all due respect I think you're complaints are unreasonable. The concept is great, and in my personal opinion nobody has done a better job.

As a guitarist though, I can understand your frustrations!

Chony

You're right Squeak, the audience often has musicians in it, WATCHING ME WORK while they are not! Let 'em think what they want!
DonM

As I have been playing with acoustic jazz musicians I have become more aware of the different sounds as they are presented on the Tyros 2. In general I guess the acoustic diehard will find arranger keyboards gimmicky. They tell me it doesn't sound real that it sounds fake. I have heard them say things like "do you want to know how degrading it is to have horns playing in the background for a real sax or guitar player?" etc, etc, etc.

I think some musicians are actually intimidated by an arranger kb. Although I doubt they would admit it, and I'm sure they don't recognize it that way. And of course for them there is the slap in the face that I as a solo performer can get as much money as a band gets.

And yet, when people come to say how good the band sounds or to want to hire the band , the almost invariably come to me, the "sideman" instead of the 2 "primary" players.

I have also been told by one of the owners of a current ongoing gig that I have, who first heard me play with a quintet with the same sax player, and band leader, that I sound better alone, than the band and have more class. (Just stating what happened not trying to wave my own flag).

I also have people come up to the restaurant entrance where I am playing outside and they tell me they thought a live band was playing.

This type of experiences have unnerved me a bit. It's a rather interesting situation to be dealing with. It makes me pay more critical attention to what I'm doing and how the instrument sounds.

So I'm just trying to make a few points here about the sound of these arrangers and what people are saying.

My slant is, it is what it is and either a person likes it or doesn't, just like my personal choices for music and the way I play it.

I think if a player doesn't like a sound, then they can either tweak it. You could reduce the amount of "fret noise", or you could pick the Nylon string guitar.

As far as the other capabilities of the SA voices, like a horn player breathing and a guitar player hitting the top of the guitar to hear that knocking sound.........Well, I'll leave that up to the individual, but I'll tell you that I turned off the pedal control for those types of things on the SA voices and use it for something that is actually important to my performance.

Scott