As some of you already know, both the PSR2000 and 9000 exhibit a 'full keyboard' mode CHORD RECOGNITION problem, which even Yamaha USA acknowleged existed, and who also assured me that it would be addresed & corrected on the Tyros. Unfortunately, after having several Tyros owners test this out on their keyboard's, it appears the problem STILL exists.

Here is a link to the thread where this problem is discussed in great detail:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/004090.html

Hey Scotty I sympathize with you because I also own the PSR 2000 and experience the same problems with mine. It's interesting though that the KN 6000 you owned exhibited no such idiosyncrasy. Why not spring for the new KN 7000? It has almost every feature the Tyros has, ie., 128 note polyphony, over 1200 high quality voices, no hard drive but it does have a disk drive plus SD Card storage capabilites soon to be 1 gigabyte in capacity, and internal speakers too:-). It weighs in at 38.8 pounds but if you get a carrying case with wheels it should be no problem weight wise when you go mobile. I am not sure how good the acoustic Grand Piano voice is. The demos that I've heard do not really give a clue. It has 64 MB of sound ROM expanable to 128 MB! It doesn't have a 3rd Layer voicing capability, ie., Main, R1, R2 like the Tyros just R1 R2 and Left which is a bit disappointing unless I'm mistaken. Maybe the Main is taken for granted when they say just R1, R2 in their spec sheet. It does have a 16 track sequencer though plus a Composer function. Here are the inputs/outputs: PPhones, Line Out (R/R+L, L), Line In (R/R+L, L),
Sub Out (1, 2) Mic Input, Foot Switch (1, 2), Video Out, USB
Foot Controller, Expression Pedal, MIDI (IN/BASS PEDAL, OUT, THRU), 66 Watts of speaker output power, plus it has initial and aftertouch and Live drum kits. I better quit now, I think I might have talked myself into getting one:-) Tyros who?? PS: Did I mention it costs about the same as a nowhere to be found Tyros?

Best regards,
Mike

Another PS: No I don't work for Technics either. I own a PSR 2000 for heaven's sake.:-) "For others reading this with suspect minds

Hi Mike (Idatrod): Actually, it was the Technics KN5000 (not 6000) that I owned, and yes, it (as well as the KN7000) do not exhibit the 'full keyboard mode' chord recognition problems the Yamaha PSRs exhibit.I had the opportunity to audition the KN7000 last week, and agree that it has many terrific features (SD card memory, terrific navigation, beautifully designed & constructed, the BEST onboard speaker system of any arranger KB I've ever heard) , great styles (esp jazz & swing & big band orch), and wonderfully impressive sounds (awesome sounding Steinway grand, horns, etc), but unfortunately there are some issues keeping me from taking the KN7000 plunge

1) Cheesy sounding vocalizer with very limited harmony options

2) Anemic sounding drum fills (no kick to drums)

3) Not able to 'jump to/from' ANY variation with auto fill via a single button push.

As a LIVE singer/keyboard entertainer, having a decent 'built in' vocalizer is most convenient. I could drag along my external Digitech Vocalizer, but in addition to not having to take extra baggage, an internal one allows you to SAVE vocalizer settings inside the KB along with its associated song in the arr keyboard's Memory Registration Banks, making it far easier to call up when performing its related song.

I also feel that the KN7000's drum patterns, though the patterns themselves sound impressive (breathe), don't have much punch or volume (headroom). I always feel I need to turn the drums way UP to get enough punch out of them. Also, the fills tend to emphasize musical instruments (strings, or melodic instrument) parts and de-emphasize (or eliminate altogether) any drum based fills at all.

Lastly, the required 2 button push approach to making variation changes (along with hearing a fill) to/from ANY variation makes it to awkward and inconvient to use in live performance.

Believe me, if the above issues weren't such a high priority to me, I'd be first in line to score a KN7000.

Though I'm keepin my eyes open, I'm not in a big hurry to upgrade as the PSR2000 is still making me happy. Who says you need to spend a lot of money to get a great arranger.

Mike, As a PSR2000 owner yourself, are you seriously considering upgrading?

Btw: As a solution (abeit limited) to the full keyboard chord recognition problem on the 2000, I play in split mode and assign both left & right parts the same voice (piano). This works but limits triggering chords ONLY from left of split, and not in the right hand, or between two hands as piano players are accustomed to.

Hi again Scott,
I didn't realize the KN 7000 had such a limited Vocalizer and I agree the fill/variation is a no no for live situations (not being able to do it with a single button push). What was Technics thinking or should I say "not thinking" when they made the KN 7000?

As to my considering upgrading from my PSR 2000 to the Tyros or some other keyboard the main reason would be to eliminate the polyphony note drop off I get with the PSR 2000. Simon Williams from Tyrosworld just did a test for me giving the Tyros a real polyphony workout and according to him the Tyros passed with flying colors, ie., no polyphony cutout, note dropoff. "Yes, I am the Mike 'seekfinder' from the Yahoo PSR and Tyrosworld forums. Now where was I?, Oh yes; if the Tyros only had internal speakers. And because of that "no internal speakers" and a few other things, eg., Chord recognition problem, no digital out, (I owned the Motif 7 briefly which has a digital out and it makes a 'world' of difference in sound output quality when you run it through a 5.1 sound system and good quality speakers and I would assume running it through a Digital Mixer would produce the same results, ie., "stunning sound reproduction". Hopefully Yamaha will give their high end arrangers this same feature too in the near future. Are you listening Steve Deming? The internal speakers make gigging soooo much easier. No extra baggage to carry around (internal speakers make good monitoring devices) plus they are really convenient for small performing situations "less hassle setting up". And if they can make the KN 7000 that has outstanding internal speakers as you pointed out at under 40 lbs. I am sure Yamaha could do the same with the Tyros II.

I will have to sit down with the Tyros and give it a good going over weighing the positive against the negative then decide if it's worth the upgrade. Something tells me it won't be though.

Best regards,
Mike

Hi Scott. I checked this out on my PSR740 and it too has the same problem. However I also checked it on my humble PSR220 and it seems OK. You play a G7 in first inversion and walk down the keyboard as you suggest and the bass notes just keep on playing and the chord shows G7 all the way. So Yamaha do know something about proper chord recognition. You just have to settle for a humble keyboard.

As the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I sure hope Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) is reading this, and will exercise his power & influence to convince Yamaha Japan that they need to 'revisit' their 'full keyboard mode' chord recognition tables. Pilot, many thanks for pointing this out.

- Scott

While we're beefing about Yamaha, I've got another beef. On all the higher keyboards, PSR740, 1000, 2000 etc., the panel organs do not have touch response. With all the other instruments, including the XG organs, touch response is optional with a button press. I find this a real pain. Like Scott I invariably use full fingering. In fact as far as I am concerned the other modes might as well not be there. I like to feed quiet chords in the left hand while playing the melody and more chords in the right hand at a higher velocity. You can't do this with the panel organs as the lower notes often obliterate the higher ones. So I can't use these instruments and this annoys me as the main reason I bought the 740 was for the organs, and the panel organs are richer than the XG organs. What's worse is that there are a lot of resonances around the lower middle of the keyboard just where the little finger of the left hand is finding some nice notes to trigger the bass notes of the style. You can hear these resonances with external speakers as well. I asked Yamaha about this and their reply was:


The reason you cannot have Touch Response on the Organ Voices on the PSR-740
is because a real organ is not touch sensitive. When Yamaha engineers
developed the 740 which is a higher end model they wanted the realism of
the real thing. The Organ Flutes feature which has the draw bars and other
organ like parameters was added to also help shape the sounds of a real
organ.


This is a load of poop. There's a button right there on the keyboard marked "Touch Response" If you want realism, hit the button and turn it off. You can do this with the XG organs so why not the panel organs. It has nothing to do with keyboard itself but is part of the tone generator. A midi sequence will give the same volume regardless of velocity. The same problem also occurs with Technics and, for all I know, Roland as well. So I ain't gonna buy another keyboard unless I get touch response on ALL instruments (just like on my humble PSR220).