Hi,

A lot of people here in the Netherlands think that we 'arranger keyboardplayers' have nothing to do to play a good sounding song. They think that we just hit a button or so and the rest goes automatically (like playing an SMF song). Then they think that you just have to do like you're actually playing the song by hitting the keys. Of course I do not agree with this at all, and I try to explain them what's actually happening. Sometimes this thought makes me mad when I hear such a thing again, and I start explaining again, like it doesn't matter. Most people who have such thought are often not very into musical instruments.

So how do people in your country think about playing a keyboard? Do they see it like art, what it actually is like, or just like they do here in the Netherlands? I'm interested to see the answers.

I just had to let this out

Sander

[This message has been edited by Sander (edited 01-19-2002).]

Hi Sander,
I am living in the Netherlands too and
my expiriences are the same.There is relative
small group who knows but a very big group
who knows nothing.It will take many years to
change this and perhaps it will never change.
We have to fight against the establishment
and their thoughts that a child that is play-
ing a violin is a saint and a child that is
playing an arrangerkeyboard is just playing
a toy.My opinion is YOU ARE IN FRONT OF THE
MUSIC!Be happy you know the arrangerkeyboards
enjoy it.(de massa bestaat uit meelopers die
alleen te beinvloeden als je er miljoenen
aan zou besteden om bekende TV persoonlijk-
heden om te kopen om iets positiefs te zeggen
over keyboards)It for me too difficult all
my words about this to say in English.

My country is Louisiana. You might say it is not exactly mainstream U.S.A. The vast majority of people here have no earthly idea what arrangers are. Other musicians don't have a clue--they understand sequences, they understand loops, they don't understand arrangers. In general the younger audiences are so indoctrinated to Karaoke that they are certain we're singing to "tapes". The older people still remember organs and they associate keyboards in that manner--which is certainly closer to the truth.
Only in the past few years have there been any other arranger players in the area. I have created a little interest (and competition) by introducing the arranger technology to a few singles and duos. I can still count them on one hand in an expanded area of around one million people.
In a nutshell, people have no opinion of arrangers because they don't know what they are.
DonM

I just saw on the german forum a similar discussion, with the same problem in Germany.

Arrangers are much more widely used in Germany (Europe) than in the US, so people are much more familiar with them.

People here in the US are still prety much in the dark as far as arrangers are concerned just like Don said.

Eric

Here in Norway they don't mind, because then
they don't have to pay for a bigger band.
You see, nowadays it's all about money, the
music is only something who happen to be in
the room.......
Well, we sound like we want to, even if it is
a BigBand or a OneManBand, and that is just
GREAT !!

GJ

Here in Brasil,profi arranger musicians are fighters against :
-Some "mid or minidisc" men that cannot play nothing with the proper fingers and want a sun place as musician.It takes courage to do such a thing.
-The karaoke machine.
-Some people that always are thinking : arrangers can play by itself...
Regards
Chico

Unlike Don's Louisiana, my country (Florida) is loaded with Arranger Players. But, money, as Gunnar says, dictates employability. After working in 4-7 pc groups for years, I made the switch to a Technics arranger (KN700, I think)in the early 90s. As primitive as it was, some in the audience marveled at the "bandlike sound" but it took awhile for them to get used to just one or two people on stage. The visual and the sound just didn't gel in their minds.

Today, that sound would not cut it. The arrangers are far more sophisticated, more lifelike, far more intuitive, and, for the most part, cheaper in price. Does the audience care about all that? Nope!. They just know what they like to hear...and they don't hear it, they go someplace else.

Oh, a few have come up to me over the years to peer over my shoulder to how its done. They may even ask a question, but after looking at the screen and about 2 button pushes they are lost. The one thing that is pretty constant is how overwhelmed they are about the number of buttons and controls we have to keep track of. But it is all about the music...and that's how we are judged.

I heard a waitress in a place I was playing talking to a customer and she referred to me as the "DeeJay". That kinda frosted me. Its doubtful that the word "arranger" was even in her vocabulary. But, I sure would have preferred her saying "musician" or "entertainer". I don't think the customer cared how I did it..he just liked the music...and that's what matters. On the other side of the coin, I have heard customers say THEY could do what the deejays do if they had the CDs and players...and its probably true. But, none of them has ever looked at what I do and said that. They may even be better singers, but they wouldn't think of trying to play an arranger.

One of the guys in the market does more horn and guitar playing to sequences on his arranger than actually fingering the keyboard. People see his keyboard, see him playing the horn in front of it, and assume all who use this kind of equipment are playing to tapes or discs. They don't have a clue. But, I understand where they are coming from.

Bottom Line: The arranger is viewed by most as some kind of piano that just happens to sound like a live band. And that's okay with me.

Eddie

Among the real arranger players in my market, we have guys playing Korgs, Roland, Technics...and one guy who's equipment is so old the name is worn off. I think I am the only Yamaha guy in town. So we all sound a little different. Some sequence a lot and have lush ballroom band sounds that only heavy sequencing can produce. I rarely sequence anything and prefer the lounge combo and 4-5 piece rock and country type sounds that are not overkill and more appropriate to one guy playing.

Thank you everyone.

Nice to see those postings, and even nicer to see Wis agreeing to my thoughts. Partly like what Chico said. Also suprised about the fact that arrangers in some parts of the US are not quite known. And the toy thing that Wis mentioned, just let's you see how people think about arrangers here .

But I like it, no matter what they say.
I just HAVE to play, everyday.

Sander

Wis: Of that helpt weet ik ook niet, maar wat je zegt heb je helemaal gelijk in.

Bsharp,

We were posting at the same time But you give a really good overview. Around christmas I was playing in public and you can pick the people out right away who have something done with music, or still play music, because most of the times they start to ask things. And people who have an arranger themselves, are looking at the frontside and backside of the arranger. First to see the buttons and functions, but at my board there are just 30 buttons I think and that's not much. But then they see the touch screen, and that's impressing them. But after all, they find it sounding great and we arranger players have just to live with these thought, but we know better

Sander

Here in the UK I have had a few times when people have been non-complimantary on my performance, basically because they think its a matter of just pushing a few buttons and touching a few keys, I think the problem comes from music programs on TV where a lot of bands mime and the keyboard players tend play one note here and there, they are more than probably not keybord players at all just merely stage fillers, that creates a bad impression in my opinion.
I always amazes me that if you play keyboards in a band your not ridiculed in anyway, but if you play an arranger keyboard your are looked upon as a second rate musician, I just explain to my audience that my left hand is the band conductor and I am the soloist on the right hand so I make my right hand playing very visiual to everybody in the room and they know I'm actually playing something, it also helps if you use two keyboards stacked so your two hands are not on the same instrument.