I'm looking for a specific explanation on Kurzweil K2600 true 48 note polyphony, what was the word "true" for? how does it use its oscillators? what are the advantage against 64,128 note polyphony other manufacturers are offering?disadvantage? please help i'm confused

Most keyboards, though they have 62-128 notes of polyphony available, are forced to layer sounds in order achieve a thicker or warmer sound. Most products layer up to four times to do this, so your 64 voices are cut dramatically.

Though a program on a K2600 can have as many as 32 layers available at once, its unlikely that you are triggering more than one voice at a time. Generally Kurzweil uses these extra layers to control certain aspects of the sound...contouring the response of a piano sound across the range of the instrument, or independently processing sounds in a drum kit as examples.

In addition, Kurzweil's K2600 has the ability to generate raw waveforms which don't use any polyphony. So a typical synth program can contain 3-4 oscillators yet only use one voice of polyphony per note.

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Mike Martin
Kurzweil Music Systems
Visit the Kurzweil Connection
http://members.aol.com/kurzconnection
and KeySolutions Sample Libraries
http://members.aol.com/keysolutns

[This message has been edited by Kurzrep (edited 08-08-2000).]

Great, each program takes only one voice, right?
(I'm thinking of buying a K 2600 ... and smash my Roland XP-50)

Question regarding the "oszillators":
Is it possible to create such sounds like virtual analog synths can, for example Roland JP 8000, Nord Lead, Access Virus and other)?

Thanks,
Heiko K.

Yes, one can use the K to create great-sounding analog synth mimicry. Of course, to perhaps a lesser extent, you can use the oscillator wave samples (waveforms) on your XP50 to do the same, right?

Mr. Em...
There aren't any rules here. You'll definitely find some sounds which are "layered" in the traditional fashion which will use up more than one voice. Also stereo samples use up two voices each.

Next Question -
Yes the K2600 IS a virtual analog synth much like the others Nord, Virus and others.

Wilkes-
Sorry but "sampled" waveforms on a keyboard like an XP50 don't quite sound the same as generated waveforms.

------------------
Mike Martin
Kurzweil Music Systems

Visit the Kurzweil Connection
http://members.aol.com/kurzconnection
and KeySolutions Sample Libraries
http://members.aol.com/keysolutns


[This message has been edited by Kurzrep (edited 09-07-2000).]

I definitely wouldn't contest that. (Kind of like digital doesn't quite sound the same as analog. ) With filters, envelopes, LFOs, etc. on "a keyboard like an XP50", one can readily make "virtual analog" synth sounds with the sampled waveforms...that's all I was trying to say.

Didn't Kurzweil sample waveforms from various analog synths to use as the "core" samples on the "Analog Collection" disks?

[This message has been edited by Wilkes (edited 09-14-2000).]

Many of the sounds on the Analog collection are not samples. They are emulations done using VAST and generated waveforms. But yes, some of the are samples too.

I would like to get a definition of the term "virtual analog" from an insider.

In my view, the Roland D50 had virtual analog operation, as it had digitally generated waveforms (modelled after analog forefathers), and the signal path had timbre/amplitude shapers controlled by envelopes, just like analog synths.

When one designs a digital filter, one use the same basic math as for analog ones, only the implementation really differs. Given that, every sample-playback-synth is "virtual analog" except for the oscillator.

Also, given that the samplerate/transposition is "good enough", playing back a sampled squarewave should give the exact same resulats as generating that wave in realtime. Except certain functions that are impossible/difficult with samples, such as sync, pwm, etc.

With the exception of the osc-level possibilities mentioned above, I have a feeling that virtual analog synths provide nothing really new in theory. They try to ride the "modelling" wave, while using more resources to solve old problems with old solutions.

Any opinions?

best regards
Knut Inge Hvidsten

Also, on the kurz poly issue:

with a k2000/k2vx, you are given 24 voices of poly. If you want a stereo piano, you`ll have a grand total of 12 voices.

I have heard that those algos that provide lots of extra osc. have little room for the fancy dsp, too. So you have a choice between 48 voices of sample playback with fancy dsp, or 48 voices of sample-playback + digital sub-osc. without very much extra power?

Not to dizz kurzweil, I think you have great synths, and it is brave that you consentrate on new functionality instead of the useless "bigger is better" battle between japanese manufacturers (128 voices of sloppy polyphony etc). But polyphony is perhaps the biggest limiting factor of Kurzweil workstations today? Given that they are quite expensive (compared to Korg triton, Roland xv 5080, Yamaha ex-5). That and the factory samples. I cant believe that you cant include more than 8mb of old 1990s k2000 samples (+ the excelent piano board). Those customers who does not purchase extra rom boards or sampler ram, will have very weak representation of several often-emulated instruments. (triton: 32mb, xv5080: 64mb? ex5 16 mb, k2600: 12mb...)

best regards
Knut Inge