I'm considering this keyboard and noticed in the archive some discussion about the styles being "in your face." concerned that this might mean "busy" or "cluttered."
my question: how are the basic drums when the other stuff is stripped away? are the patterns basic enough to use for "sketchpad" type demo purposes?

all insights welcome, and thanks in advance.

I am reading back as I only rechecked in again some days ago -- Yes Drums are great --I was using R8 studio drum and that naturally has a great quality in Bas drum and snare and side stick ( generally also ) however I was pleased with X1 and I still am after 9 months. Patterns are basic but very good I mean they are not full of Crap clutter -- I however reduce chord and orch parts and sometimes do a liitle adj to drums

I am not an X1 owner, but I was one of those referring to Solton styles as "in your face". When you listen to a Solton style, you are much more likely to say "wow" than when you listen to a Yamaha style. In a way, Solton styles are almost like compositions in themselves, while Yamaha's styles are more like basic building blocks.

An analogy would be between flashy and conservative clothing. Flashy clothing can be more attractive. However, the attractiveness of the flashy clothing often remains associated with the clothing, while the good impression made by conservative clothing is more likely to be associated with the wearer, since the clothes themselves are soon forgotten. Conservative clothes can be worn many times, and there is little concern when another person wears the same conservative clothes. No so with flashy clothes. No one in a flashy outfit likes to see another in the same flashy outfit.

I imagine that it is easier to get away with using a Yamaha-type style several times in a gig than it would be to use a Solton style several times in a gig. On the other hand, most of us would want the choice between flashy and conservatives styles to be ours, rather than reserved for the manufacturers.

[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 10-22-2000).]

Clif

It's a rainy day:
Well said, but what if your clothes get wet? Does it really matter if they are flashy or conservative? The trick is to keep them dry, and it doesnt matter what you wear.

Ilija

Ilija

I used to live in Hollywood-LA: there, it rarely rains and "image is everything". Staying dry is not much of a trick--people can go all day to Venice beach and not get wet. Arrangers have a stodgy image in LA, so I do not think many professional musicians use them there. Hopefully, the image and usage are improving.

Clif

Clif:
I think that is EXACTLY the reason why we benefit in Europe so much under the Arranger-worlds. Products are introduced here, because we SELL them here!
You should see what happens in Germany. No one buys an occasion, almost everyone buys new ones. Thats why you get NOTHING for you old instrument and you can buy occassions for free. Ones a year there is the biggest occassion market in the whole world next to my city (50 miles) where you can buy super keyboards and synthesizers for almost free.
And if you look around advertisement/market sites where private people can sell their stuff, you can find a lots of arrangers. A lot of people own one and therefore they sell a lot. In America it is only a few selected people.
I have in Holland a lot of friends who (or their parents) own a beautiful keyboard (like a PSR8000) JUST because it should be in a family! None of them can actually play hahah. It is sort of culture, like a piano. A lot of people should have a piano (so they think) but its too expensive and therefore they buy a keyboard.
Also for small children: instead of letting your children on basketball, american football or baseball, they let their children practice an instrument. And 50% chance that it will have keys.

It's all in the market, it's all in society...

Ilija

Ilija, as always, you have a fresh perspective. Your comments about Europeans generally absorbing arranger instruments into their homes and lifestyles with greater ease than we Americans are most interesting.

Juxtaposed with the comments about Los Angeles' musical "stodgy-ness" and performers' concerns about over-using fancy styles during a gig or in a a town with more than one X-1 in it, your comments indicate the rich differences among cultures. I'm not going anywhere philosophical with this observation; it's just neat to read about how sincere and right and different we all are.


And, Tom, the X-1, as many arranger units, has the ability to defeat its styles' backing instruments one layer at a time, thus leaving you with what I (and many) think of as not only very useable drums/bass, but incredibly real ones. In fact, Bill Cone, owner of Synthony Music in Phoenix, just commented yesterday on how some of the patterns have such a live drum feel, with all the "push & pull" nuances of a live drummer, that he was wondering if some of the patterns are actually recorded live licks that have been morphed into styles. (The X1 has a sampler that, apparently, can be used to do this as you create your own styles--so why not the manufacturer?)

This is an aside from your question, Tom, but I strongly recommend that, before buying an X-1 or X-4 (the non-keyboard module version), that you take you own sound generating gear to the store (masterkeyboard--if you're getting the X-4, any pedals, mics, vocalist units, etc.) and hook 'em up to the Solton and play for a while. Many of us have unique setups and you want to make sure that your musical needs and playing style aren't too compromised by the Solton's (or any unit's) way of recieveing and trasmitting midi data. I'm having a tough time getting my rig to work "like the old rig did," so that's why I caution you to test drive the whole thing at the store.

Good luck.
Jim Henry

[This message has been edited by Jim Henry (edited 10-22-2000).]

Hi Jim

I don't know why Bill Cones is wondering. Solton says they are real drum loops, not just midi triggering samples. Solton, like a number of other companies, are using tempo-controllable audio loops for their drum tracks. General Music has something (RASS) similar in their SKs.

Clif

Ilija,

Friend, I am really interested in some good but cheap sound modules, something like JV1010 or Proteus 2000. Do you think you can get those for slashed prices?

I think JV1010 is going for $399 and the 2000 is going for $799.. here in the US (brand new ofcourse)

What about the prices in Europe?

You can buy a JV1010 for: USD $450 here in Europe. But it's the second hand market that is unbelievable normally. Especially that big one yearly or halfyearly gatherings. You can find it for $ 250. But i am not really IN the JV series. So I need to pass on your question. I looked for a couple things, but it is too expensive.

Just checkl it out yourself at: www.marktplaats.nl On the left of the page click on the 4th line "Zoeken op trefwoord" which means like searching. Type in on the top Roland JV (or whatever you want) and look around. USD$ 1 = fl 2,50 so divide by 2,5 to get in USD.

Ilija