Domenik has told me in the past that he has been reluctant to post videos because he feels his English is not adequate. I can certainly understand his concerns especially in light of the scrutiny that one can receive on a forum where everything is generally spoken in English. I for one have no problem with reading all the posts from our members who do not share English as their primary language. Though some may use it with different degrees of proficiency I am still almost always able to understand what they are trying to communicate and isn’t that what matters?

I have encouraged Domenik to post whatever video or other info that might help people to better understand his product and I very respectfully ask all here that in the spirit of open communication between musicians who share a common bond, “our beloved arranger keyboard”, to refrain from derogatory comments of a personal nature. Instead let’s concentrate on what really matters to each of us. Is this product for me? What are its features and how can they help me better express myself through music?

When a product comes along that make you enjoy music more and begin to rediscover why you got into music in the first place, the joy of playing, then you have found something special. That’s how I feel about the Mediastation and I hope that more people who are knowledgeable in arrangers will soon join me so that together we could explore what can be accomplished on this unique instrument. Ok I am going to stop now because I’m starting to sound like a Hallmark card. LOL.

There will probably never be as many Mediastations in use as there are Yamahas but that’s ok, this isn’t a competition, not for me anyway. No one tool has ever satisfied everyone and isn’t “variety” the “spice of life”?

OK Domenik where is that video?

Richard

Ok, here is the promised video, I just made some minute ago.
P.S.: with this video I will only shown you that the MS is STABLE, easy to turn ON, simple interface and ready to play your stuff, like one normally embedded keyboards.
here the link: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/msbooting.wmv

Please, I dont need comment about how i play and the audio quality, because is recorded by MIC digital camera. I just want shown you how is easy to use the MS.
IF you enjoy this type of INFO video, then i contine records more about editing styles, connecting new VST by Jack, loading gig sounds in the MS keys, Video player...

Ok, added for you one example how I connect some VST instruments and the Kontakt2: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/kontakt2.wmv

Ok, for today we need some realx too, to much for one day... http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/video.wmv

here the video vith the VST roland Hypercanvas http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/vstcanvas.wmv


Domenik

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 07-03-2006).]

Domenik
I build computers using AMD cpus. I know AMD runs hot. How is the cpu cooled? It normaly takes two case fans plus a cpu fan. All those fans make a lot of noise. Is the cpu fan and heatsink easy to clean?
So far I like what I see. Keep the info comming.
Smokey

Thank you Dom for the video, it was pretty much rapresentative. IMO, THIS is the way that everyone here can understand about mediastation. The only thing that i noticed was the small latency between the changing of the sounds from GM to B4, GIGA sounds and synth, but probably this is a common issue on open systems (need time to load).

I wouldn't like to add something else beacuse i'm not an expert.

Keep up the good work and i thing the mediastation is in the right way. IMHO a grate sounding keyb ready for work...

regards
KeybG

I WANT ONE! Hmmmmm two equations here:

Mediastation + my studio = "Keyboard Heaven"

Mediastation + my studio + my wife = sleeping with the fishes..

Tough one there.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-30-2006).]

Thank you, Dom, for your video. It is pretty impressive. At least, it appears that you and the forum are now on positive ground. I sure hope it stays that way.

Hopefully, we can see more as time goes by, such as demonstrations of solo instruments in addition to the pianos,synth, and B4.

Bernie

For me personally, that was probably the best, most informative, and high quality audio of the MS I have ever seen. I can actually say that I can see myself owning this instrument. Wow..I had no idea how far along you have come with the MS. I love the fact you can switch between VST's, GM/GS so quickly. The sound was amazing, especially on the drums.

Well done Domenick.. Now we can talk about price!!!!

Regards,
Al

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

One more thing...I was very impressed with the layout of the control surfaces and how they interfaced with the software. The B4 and Giga sounded amazing and to be able to control them with both the Touch screen and the sliders is awesome.

Absolutley Fantastic!

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

I really think Dom's Mediastation is going to do well. These open source workstations (in my opinion) are going hit hard.

Just the whole concept is awsome. Not only internal sounds, but the ability to add programs, VST's ect. All that horsepower with arranger functions too. It truly is the "Hybrid".

Now we just need those who an afford one to take her home--tweek her, then the true test--"gigging with it".

Squeak

Ok...one more thing. I thought your English was perfect too!

Very well done Dom!

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

Dom....

Thanx so much for taking the time to demo your Mediastation pro KB for us all......The possibilities are endless for so many applications on stage & studio...I enjoyed it very much. I for one will be looking for more of these video sessions possibly to demonstrate each section in more detail to explain how they work. Keep em coming!!!

Ciao

Donny

Wersi instruments have been gigged for the last 6 years, from small venues, concert halls, and stadiums and even in the middle of a swimming pool, (Although it was on a dedicated floating platform) therefore as the Mediastation is the same concept, there shouldn’t be any problems playing it live.

Bill

Thanks Dom for posting the video! Hopefully the skeptics here will now see what the Mediastation can do rather than speculate. The demo you showed was but a fraction of what the MS can do but it gets the point across.

FYI... The sounds Domenik played were basic GM/GS except the B4 and the GIGA piano. Once you load numerous GIGA, Kontakt, or other third party sample files into the Mediastation the sound palette is unreal. The stock sound banks that come with the Mediastation are quite good but the real power is unleashed when you load massive sound files. Give a listen to the GIGA (www.tascamgiga.com) or Garritan (www.garritan.com)sound libraries to hear what I am talking about. No Tyros is going to compete with the likes of those sounds. The other thing to take into consideration is that the Mediastation has true 24 bit audio and the MP3 format does not do it justice.

Wow! I listened to some of those demos. All I can say is stunning I still say this type of keyboard is going to only gain in popularity.

I wouldn't be surprised that down the road, Yammie starts doing this (open source) set up. The possibilities are endless.

Actually strike that..., I take that back--I can't see Yammie doing this. I honestly can't see Yammie creating a keyboard that allows the user the flexibility of the Mediastation....

Something like that would (in my opinion) hurt their sales With something like the Mediastation you upgrade the boards "software-and hardware"--allowing you to keep the same board.

Yammie (and others) rely on "upgrading the whole board". They give you tid bits on the upgrades--but never all the things you want because if they did--you wouldn't buy the next model

I know that's just business.., I won't argue that. I guess that's why I like the Mediastation. You keep the same board, and updates are easier on the pocket because you don't have to buy the whole keyboard for the upgrade. Woldn't it be great to have a T2, and when Yammie releases the T3 you'd be able to keep your T2 and add the sounds of the T3 via expansion, and so on?

The price Dom will sell you a Mediastaion will shock you. (He quoted me a price less the the T2, and considerably less than the current online prices).

I gotta start shmoozing the wife here. That Mediastation is my cup of tea. Any pointers on how I should start my shmoozing???? Gotta plan my approach here

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-30-2006).]

Squeak...relax please...
Just watch the new Video that I have posted on TOP.

I watched the video. Well done.., sorry If my excitement is getting too high. I just think boards like the Mediastation are going to force other companies to step up the competition

Well done Dom...., I wish you and your team the best. You've produced a fine product.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-30-2006).]

Good video Domenik, in 10 minutes you showed GM, Giga and Vst sounds; you played an arranger style, a midi file and an audio wave file. While also showcasing a really cool feature that nobody has mentioned yet. Using the audio editing engine included in the mediastation you first pitchshifted the wave file without speeding up or slowing down the file then you timestretched the audio wave file slower and faster without changing the pitch all with the simple turn of a dial. And all that included the Mediastation doing a complete boot up from being completely powered off.

The other 2 videos were good as well. The last was fun to see the Mediastation playing video with all these sounds still loaded in memory and ready for play at the touch of a button. While these accomplishments may seem amazing I do the same thing everyday with my Mediastation. It really is that easy!

Richard

1) I can't believe all those buttons and lights.
2) Yamaha won't have a choice, they usually are a leader, but if necessary they will follow the leader. Yamaha will make money with softsynths. Ask Microsoft if there is any money to be made selling software only.
3) Squeak, you would probably have to BUY B4, and giga studio, and Garittan, etc. The Mediastation probably comes with the stock GM voices only.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 06-30-2006).]

Starkeeper, I don't think it just comes with stock GM/GS voices. I'm pretty sure there are some other goodies included.

Yeah Yamaha will sometimes follow the leader, but if they do (there's no way on this green earth) that you'll see a price tag on it as found on the Mediastation.

You better believe Yammie will take the road Korg took with their Oasys. If Yammie does it, be prepared for that $6,000 and up price tag!

Squeak

Hi Dom . Thanks for those great demonstrations. You see what kind of positive and useful feed back you get when you just demo the instrument ?

Hears some more positive feedback

1. There were some definate latency issues when you changed sounds from VST or giga to gm. Thats not so vital in a studio setting but in a live setting that can be a deal breaker. Especially if the audience notice and i think that they would.When you used some of the user presets in the 1st video there was a very noticeable delay between the demonstrator depressing the keys and the eventual sound. You need to address that .
2. In the second video using the Kontack vst plugging,i counted 17 button presses to connct just one vst.Again that might be tolerable (to some) in a studio but in a live setting thats simply not acceptable.
3. I noticed that the demonstrator had to be very very careful when using the touch screen to select the sounds and connections for the vst and midi connections .Does the MS have the facility to save the users favourite settings and VST sounds so that they can be used instantly just like the One Touch Setting function that almost every arranger keyboard has. If the MS does not have this function YOU MUST DEVELOPE AND INCORPORATE ONE
3 I specifically asked you to demonstrate how the VST , Giga pluggins work in the arranger function. Just so that we are clear i mean vst bass and giga drums and kontact pianos and b3 organs etc. I want to hear how the various pluggins interact in the arranger function and how well they balance and can be switched from one style to another whilst playing live. If the latency problems exist when changing styles then you will need to overcome this potential problem if this instrument is to be marketed as an arranger keyboard
4. last bit is really about how the eq etc is set up for each VST instrument that you might use in the arranger function. The last thing any gigging musician wants is to be fiddling about trying to balance sounds when you change sounds whilst playing live !!! Again if you can incorporate a One Touch Setting function , this would solve some of the problem.

I hope that you have found the feedback useful. One of the problems that i can see immediately with the marketing of the MS is that you are not getting constructive feedback from your target audience

The more you work with us, the more we are likely to want what you produce. Make no mistake, there are no other manufacturers that have taken the opportunity to work with its target market as you have been given.Please understand and jumpall over this opportunity as it will reap rewards many times over.

Spalding..
You asked me to shown IF the MS is able to open the VST and the Giga files and you saw that the MS is able.
Then IF you dont like in Live setting the latency issues when I switch from one engine to another, then I can JUST remain under the GM/GS engine, like one traditionally embedded keyboard.




I try to make the best possible, but for developing OS need time and slow slow we will arrival where the other are only dreaming.
We are now in the present, they have now to thinking what for a Keyb developing. Need years untill they can porting the embedded OS to the PC x86, believe me, just look the Oasys, 5 year project untill was ready.


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-30-2006).]

Dom you are missing the point and i am afraid this has been your problem all along. You are marketing this keyboard to the wrong market. I am an arranger keyboard player. This particular discussion board is an arranger discussion board. The things i have asked you to demonstrate are the things that any arranger keyboard player would require in a standard aranger keyboard. Your selling point with the MS is its ability to incorporate differnt sounds from diferent manaufacturers. Thats fantastic and i welcome that. But i want it to work in an ARRANGER KEYBOARD IN A WAY HAT ARRANGER KEYBOARD PLAYERS USE THEIR INSTRUMENT.

If you want to sell the keyboard to an arranger market then you simply have to incororate the points that i have raised. I have already told yo that your instrument in its current form could work well in a studio setting as the problems that i have highlighted may not be critical in that setting but they definately are critical in a live setting for a one man band /arranger player.

Stop being so defensive when you get POSITIVE FEEDBACK. I am not trying to put down the MS or yourself. I am constructively pointing to what areas must be improved if you want to break into the aranger market in a big way. For your own sake if you continue to market the keyboard without listening to th feedback you will continue to struggle with sales in the arranger market and worse, you will damage your credibility when people invest their money and realise the instrument does not do well what it was marketed as being able to do well !
"I don't think that 0.5 sec latency from switching engine VST/GIGA is a tragedy, when you start with one song I think you dont have to change the instruments 10/20 times.
Just look all the others Mp3 demos made with the other key, they switch the sounds max 2/3 times in ONE song/style.
Is a compromise, you want the all power and the best GIGA/VST sounds BUT you dont want have the delay, this is impossible and you know well, just read the oper topic about the softsynth. Bosendorfer 290 is 1900 Mb, do you want have it READY in 0.1 sec??"

Dom this is an example of the problem that i said about you not getting the right feedback from aranger players. If i switch sounds in one performance 2-3 times i cannot afford for your latencey issues to spoil the audience enjoyment in that one song !
"You told me to shown working the Kontakt and under MS is working. Of course Kontakt is NOT integratd in the MS OS and this mean that forever I have to use the Kontakt interface for loading manually the all instruments and setup every time.
How i told before, kontakt is not the best system for the styles/midifiles, because we have always to Pre loading a new sounds setups and waiting time"

Then dont you think that this limitation will impact upon the appeal of using all those wonderful sounds to an aranger keyboard player hat makes their living in a live play setting ? Come on dom , i am not trying to break yo down ! i am simply pointing to real issues you wil have to contend with if you wish to break into the aranger market. Dont try and tell me of because i want to use the keyboard as an arranger and it would seem that from your responses i cant unless i am happy to stick with gm sounds ! thats not the way the instrument has been marketed.....

"IF you look again in my webpage, you will see that soon we exit with the X-Kore Linux, where is possible setup and SAVE infinitly VST instrumenst and Hyperlinked in the MS button, like how we make with the GIGA sounds. http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/lspatch.png
under GIGA sampler we browser the GIG file and we Insert in the MS UI, with the X-Kore we will browser the VST.DLL files and we insert in the MS UI too.
The X-Kore will AUTOMATICALLY connect the audio and midi, setup the Volume gain and other midi parameter.
with this new FREE OF CHARGE system then you are ABLE to play how many VST you like in realtime.
BUT this do NOT mean that you dont have to waiting the first RUN time for loading the File.dll.
IF in your PC you can do, then show us how you make.
Or maybe you have 1Milion GHZ DualcoreX8 CPU??"

I wasnt aware of this....thats why i simply asked the question... But if i was not the cool headed person That i am ( most of The time) your answer would really piss me off.

Last bit Dom

All i have done is ask questions as someone genuinely interested in the MS as an arRanger player. I hope you accept that i simply wish to make sure that the instrument is ready RIGHT NOW to meEt my needs right now. If you dont want to end up with more bad customer experiences like you had with Craig (which i am glad you resolved honourably) then you better make it clear to your potential customers what the MS CAN AND CANT DO IN TERMS OF ARRANGER PLAYING AS THAT IS YOUR TARGET MARKET .

I have given you as much constructive feedback as i can. Like i said at he bottom of my last post

"The more you work with us, the more we are likely to want what you produce. Make no mistake, there are no other manufacturers that have taken the opportunity to work with its target market as you have been given.Please understand and jumpall over this opportunity as it will reap rewards many times over."

but i will add that the way you handle request for more information can also destroy any hope that you have in making a positive impact on your target market.

Bet wishes worth

"

Not trying to be controversial, just a comment, but.........

At least Korg didn't try to sell the Oasis in the 5 yrs it took to be ready............ (If you don't count the PC card). This is the crux of the matter.

Arranger play is timing CRITICAL. If you have to stay with just a GM/GS engine to be able to be responsive, where's the advantage for an arranger player? It's cool for the studio, but how do you gig one without some serious compromise?

Maybe multiple CPU running in tandem might get us there, but until all the promise is realized in a realtime/hardware-like fashion, gotta pass............

Dom said they were still working on eliminating any final latency issues ( Though I don't even think a WMV file is valid way to judge latency ). And like a computer you'll have to face there will be more prep time before it will be ready to use. If you were using a laptop live as a sound source you'd be facing exactly the same thing. Don't expect the Mediastation to be any different, everything is limited by the current state of technology.

As for hitting buttons that is simply a matter having to get your finger onto the correct onscreen item without selecting the wrong item. This depends entirely on the GUI provided by the application being used plus the size of the fonts being used. For live use I'd prefer to use applications that had large well separated buttons to make operations "error free" on stage. Of course it's a personal call whether you want to use a touch screen on stage or not. But in the studio it would be quite workable and a mouse could be used as well if preferred.

The number of button presses is just the same as it would be on using a mouse driven computer ( just more obvious ) and the most important thing is to then be able to save a setup so it can be recalled easily in one operation when it's needed.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 06-30-2006).]

Hi All
Operating systems constantly develop over time just as the Lionstracs system will, and being software based they will be able to add features that the customer wants more quickly.
As for needing further development, then consider this, should Microsoft have stuck with Windows 3.1, or a Mac with version 1 software, just because it didn’t do everything that everybody wanted, and then wait until Nirvana (Which can never be achieved) was achieved before releasing the next version?
BTW. With the Wersi OAS system all voices (No maters what instrument or sample they come from) are treated as just another voice. (With VSTs once you have loaded them in, you do not need to access them unless you wish to edit the sound, you just select what voice you require from a menu of available voices (As all arranger keyboards do) and then map it to a voice button.
Also please remember that the more memory you have the more voices can be loaded in to Ram at start-up. (This is the way a Wersi works and it can currently be expanded up to 4GB, Most Giga sample (And similar) VSTs require just 1GB of free Ram to work correctly)
Another point, please remember that Wersi have been making Organs/Arrangers since 1969, (Other manufactures have also had a long timeline) and so have a great knowledge of what people want, were as Lionstracs is quite young and still learning.
Hope the above addresses a few points, and also gives Domenik some ideas of how to further improve his instrument.

Bill

am i on a different planet ? Computers are different from musical instruments ! if you had a choice to buy a mirosoft product that didnt do what you wanted it to and another product that did which would you choose ???????

I dont want to get into any strife with anyone but please dont tell me its sensible to buy a product that isnt ready for what you want it to do now simply because it might be ready in a few years time especially when there are excellent alternatives that do what you want right now !

I will support any buisnes with my purchases if they can give me what i want in the way i want it. Right now it would appear he MS cannot. Lets not play around with words. I asked Dom some straight honest and searching questions as a genuine potential customer. I got back....well you can see for yourselves . If you want to purchase this instrument and help fund its developmental costs then be my guest.... I will wait until your funds have financed the project to completion and then i will take another look at it.

Dom said

"I'm totally sure that musician like Prince, Wonder...they will NEVER GIG's with one T2....
and We know that the T2 is the best arranger keyboard in the world.
But why they will not choose it? Think about..."

I am pretty sure that if Prince or Stevie wonder ever read this post they would never gig with a mediastation either......think about it ....

"

If for you is really important switching from style to style and sound to sound WITHOUT ant latency, then I will make a new Video and show you that the MS is able too, like the all embedded keyboard.
I have only to choose the right style without big GIG sounds or only styles developed under GM/GS, like the all normally keyboard.
Who will tell me that I MUST use the Midi-Audi-Giga styles IF I need to switch in realtime?
I can use the MS like a T2, without any type of latency.

So..I'm honest again:
1) If you want switch in realtime styles without latency, you have to use the MIDI styles
2) If you want play big Midi-Audio-Giga styles, you have to waiting for the preloading time and the switch latency.
The Mediastation is working only in this way, so..before someone will order one MS now he know the status.

About the big musician, you will see SOON who have ordered the X-88 for the concert, bacause is the only keyb that allow you to play GIGA, synth, Vst in realtime and they don't care about the 0.5sec latency when they switch engine.

I just made the Video styles that you had request: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/styleslatency.wmv

Let me know if is accetable the latency now.

I'm honest and I dont have nothing to hide in my OS, but of course we can make always better.

Domenik,
Finally decent informative video demos of your product! Much more convincing about the capabilities and potential of the MS.

Personally I don't need a keyboard to play cd's and DVDs for me, but I did like the rest of what I saw.

I thought perhaps a little involved using and routing some of the plug ins, but I suppose one gets used to it after a time or two.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Hello Domenik
You really should try and get your instrument over to one of the UK festivals, as then people will be able to try the instrument out and compare it with others, I’m sure it would go down well.
BTW At the larger festivals we get people from all over the world, not just the UK.
Here is a link. http://www.organfax.co.uk/holidays.html


Bill

As with all computers, one way to tackle the latency issue is to cache the information in memory. This way the computer just switches memory locations rather than load the samples from the hard disk. Domenick, how much user memory does the MS accept? If you chip up the MS to 2 gig of memory, would that help the latency issue since most of your samples would reside in memory instead of on the Hard disk?

Thanks

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

Domenico......Gracia.....your starting to open peoples eyes to the future of arranger KB's!!!

Another great video Dom!

Spalding,
I just wanted to say something about the latency issue you mentioned. If my memory serves me correctly I'm fairly certain I have read a few things about the Korg Oays having a slight latency issue too.

Keep in mind this is a board using Linux for the operating system. Teh $8,000 Korg apparently has a very light latency too.

When you start applications on your computer do they just pop right open (especially when moving from one application to the next). You have to consider (as mentioned by another member)--limitation of current technology.

As far as Dom marketing his board here and in the arranger world...., well why not? Isn't the Mediastation also an arranger? This is an arranger forum, and the Mediastation has preset styles that use auto accomp. So I think he's in the right place.

Yeah it took Korg several years to get their Oasys out--however, look where Dom is with the Mediastation. Can it be improved upon..., absolutely--but so can every other keyboard on the market.

I like Doms approach. In today's market a keyboard like the Mediastaion seems to make so much more sense. Where we are now "technology wise" a person shouldn't have to always upgrade to a whole new keyboard.

Yamaha and others hold back on specific features because they know they can't give you all the things you ask for... If they did you wouldn't buy the new and improved Tyros 3.

With the Mediastation you keep that board, and just make upgrades to it, and you don't have to shell out $3,000 or more like you do with other companies for the new model.

Squeak

Very Good valid points for sure!!

Finally good videos!
What I like about the mediastation is unlike other closed keyboard systems like Tyros 2, Genesys, G-70, PA1x and the like, the mediastation will never be a complete product.

It is constantly being improved upon, keeping the user up to date with the latest computing technology. The mediastation can always give the user what they demand in the form of a software upgrade.

I think most people realized that playing a mediastation can not and should not be the same concept as playing a closed keyboard system.

The mediastation is on the cutting edge of music computer technology. But everyone realize that computers and music is not a perfect thing as yet. However, there are lots of persons that gig with laptops on stage giving them the great sounds of VSTs and giga files. Even though the laptop system may not be 100% perfect they still gig with it for several reasons. They love the high-quality sounds they can get and thus can sound more expressive. They are not tyed down to one set of sounds; they can always buy just what they want. And they realize that it is an investment that would allow them to keep up with the latest technology and not have to buy and learn a whole new keyboard every 2 years.


The big advantage of the mediastation is that it puts together both music and computing technology in a single box. It allows the user to incorporate VST and other sample sounds in to their styles and songs. It is always upgradeable so that even though it may be limited by computing technology today, it should be able to accommodate new technology and features as the computer side of things evolve.

The mediastation can do everything the closed keyboard systems can do and much more and is never ending in terms of features and software upgrading.

Just ask people who use one now.

P.S playing VSTs and giga files is only one aspect to the mediastation remember you can do a lot with wave files and styles and midi. You can also record audio and it has a full midi/audio sequencer.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 07-01-2006).]

I just want to clarify that when people talk about latency it is usually taken to mean the time it takes from the moment you hit the key to the time it takes to hear the sound.

On the other hand the time it takes to start a new application or program is usually referred to loading time or something like that.

As far as I am concerned you can setup so called performances on a software based system where there is minimal latency 10ms or less and no loading times. I have explained this in some of my past discussions on this subject. I have absolutely no trouble using my system for live performances. If you setup performances (preload the required instruments) and fully load the auto accompaniment you should have no problems of any kind.....and you will have the best sounds available anywhere....bar none. From what I see the mediastation should have no trouble doing the same thing....it is a computer in a keyboard.

The main deficiency in my system is the user interface and even this one can get used to. Mediastation would solve this problem. It should do very well as an arranger keyboard (including live performances) with the best sounds available.

I am for anything that provides options for those in the music business. Domenik is doing just that and we should be grateful for that. Should he succeed then he deserves to become a rich person. I for one wish him the best.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 07-01-2006).]

Dom this is the last post that i wil make because we are going round and round in circles. The unique selling point that the MS has over the likes of the T2 PA1X etc is the fact that you can use the best samples and sounds from external manufacturers on the MS as an arranger right ? So demos of switching styles using gm sounds means nothing to me. You said in your latest video that you used some giga sounds in the styles.Can you tell us what giga sounds were used in the styles you played and which sounds they were playing ie bass, drums, horns etc? were they in your opinion the best giga sounds you could find or were they simply the best that would actually play without latency problems on your MS. Be absolutely clear on this. Is it possible to do the same with VST sounds yes or no ? I could not tell from the recording whether giga or gm sounds were being used, thats not your fault, just the recording. The gm sounds dont matter so much as i dont ever use them but maybe other musicians here do but they would hardly by a MS so that they could play GM sounds in their arrangements would they ?

For anyone else here that might think i am picking on dom. I am not. He is not an ordinary poster. He is here to promote and sell his merchandise. As a potential customer i have a right to press him hard on issues important to me as i dont have acces to demo an MS. If you are happy with the answers you have had great, i am sure Dom is ready and willing to take your orders and i would be happy for Dom to inform me of how many purchases he has had from this board. It would certainly make me feel more confident about a potential purchase myself. But i dont think many people are confident enough to do that just yet. and if anyone here has the courage to purchase an MS as an arranger then please let me know as i will be asking Dom for my commision for making him market the instrument the way he has in this thread !!!!If i am wrong then will the silent owners of he MS please spaek up and tell us what experience you have had using VST, giga etc sounds WITHIN THE STYLES IN LIVE PERFORMANCES. I am not intersted in a studio workstation. For that i would by a controller keyboard for a few hundred pounds and a computer not an MS or PA1X or tyros2,3,or 4 !

I hope i have not been rude to anyone or to Dom and if i have i apologise.

Cheers

Worth

Squeek d. the korg oasys is not an arranger keyboard and would never be marketed as such. It is fo the most part a studio instrument where latency is simply not an issue. If it had arranger capabilities it too would struggle to meet the reqirements of any arranger layer musician if the best sounds were to be used within the styles. Unfortunately , if you sell anykeyboard on the back of its USP (unique selling proposition) to a market that requires features that he keyboard does not have , there will be a mismatch of expectations . Right now there are serious questons that still need to be answered by Dom before i believe his product will meet my expectations but feel free to sell what you have and purchase an MS and let us know how you get on with it.right now the MS's USP is wasted on me but might be great for others

Spalding, dont worry, when I have time I'm here to try to explain you untill you have understand how is working the MS and the possibility that we have.

First, look again the styles video, because I had starting playing styles with GIGA drums and then I had swtich to GM/GS styles only and back again to GIGA style.
The 3 GIGA drums was developed from Groovepark germany and the files are about 20Mb each.
For loading this GIGA files the Linuxsampler need about half second and when is in PC chace I can switch the styles without latency.

So, the concept of the MS arranger work in this way:
1) we must have all the 16 midifiles patterns in one folder, the folder name will be the style name. http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/style/stylefolder.png
IF there give the all wave, the arranger will play the midi+audio in sync.

2) After i have all the midifile, I touch the function key EDIT: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/styleedit.png
3) there I can have up to 12 Sounds setup for EACH style. In each soundpreset I can edit the sounds of each midi channels available: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/channels.png
4) Then for each channel I can setup the sounds that I like, here about the GM: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/chaedit.png
and here about the GIGA: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/gigapara.PNG
5) and the result you can see in the main EDIT interface.

So..now about your VST question, YES is possible routing the styles to the VST plugins too. http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/styleedit.png
each preset will recall the right program change of the desidered destination.

If you look again the Video about the VST connection, I can open the Kontakt and connecting where i like.
the arranger have the MIDI OUTS and I connect it to the kontakt and then I can use the kontakt only OR a mix of other device. http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/jackmidi.png
when is connected ONE time ( you can also make a Jack presets) you dont have to touch there nothing, all is connected and you will play the MS normally.

Other MS possibility:
we know that with VST we can have latency for loading the samples, BUT who told us to use the only VST or GIGA??

IF someone like the Roland sounds only, they can buy one external Rack expander, like the Fantom XR, OR Ketron SD2, AKAI sampler...what better you like, you will have the totally FREEDOM.

Chose one external module, connect the MS midi OUT to the module IN and the Audio OUTS of the module in the MS LINE IN L+R.
Now this soundmodule is INTEGRATED in the MS system.
You routing the arranger midi out to the soundmodule and RE EDIT one of the 12 style sound preset with the right prg, Var of your desidered module.
Or still you can connect the MS keyboard to the module and play his sounds ONLY.

IF the yamaha will make one Tyros 2 sound module, the MS can have the totally SAME sounds integrated.

Today is saturday and I dont have fun to make a new video.
Monday i wil make one video and shown you there how I can edit the sounds styles, with GM and Giga.
Ciao

LIONSTRACAS MEDIASTATION X76 is working in ARRANGER MODE also with VST.

I try that with HYPERCANVES and it is working perfectly.
I can control all sounds, faders, sys ex, pan, eq, reverb, delay . . .
I change between styles and here is no waiting time because of good connection between MS and HYPERCANVES.

Sounds are changing automatically.

Please, would you be so kind and download from


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=B21112D672EE303B

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E82F710B34A56ABA


That is also possible with NI KONTAKT 2 and all other VST’s who are working as sound modules.


Best regards.

Zmago

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 07-03-2006).]

What program did you use to create the file, as I cannot find a player that will open it?
The second link just takes you to yousendit.com to upload your own files.

I'm using DIV X codec. Now is available 6.2. http://www.divx.com/
Best regards

I make the new video under Wmv format, with the MS arranger and VST Hypercanvas Roland.
The system is working, but I have to remap the sounds styles under Hypercanvas, because right now are setup with the new GM/GS sounds of the mediastation.

Here the video: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/vstcanvas.wmv

I have a question for the owners of some of the other top of the line arrangers.

This may be a bit off topic from where this thread began but since we are carefully checking the loading time for the premium vst's and very large giga sounds,I would like to know how long the loading time is on these other brands.

Not for the GM sounds or ones that are loaded in rom, but extra sounds how long to load? and how large are the files?

Specifically the Korg PA1x Pro with the pinoe expansion board how big is the file and how long to load?

I think the Tyros2 also has the ability to load sample files.I do not know if maybe the GEM Genesys, Roland G70 or others have this ability. I know that most of the older keyboards I have had did not have this ability. My GEM sk880 did but only very small files maybe 16 mb I am not sure and for that I had to install the sample memory as an option.

Thanks in advance for you responses, I really enjoy the exchange of information on this forum!

I'm having KORG TRITON STUDIO and this keyboard is having time for loading of 96 MB of samples in 1 minute and 40 second. Here are all presets and KPM. (Mapping of samples)

Keyboard is working good and fine. I need to set loop of samples in new position, but ordinary is working well.

I had at home also PA1 X and am working on same platform.

I'm very interesting how long is loading samples OASYS or Tyros 2. Thanks for replays.

Thanks Magica Alfa
I have just updated my DivX codec and it now works fine.

Bill

Domenik, (sorry for the late response, I managed to see the video files just yesterday).
Congratulations,
with some videos about 15-20 minutes long, you showed a good portion of what the MS can do, satisfied the curiosity of Synthzone members and drew constructive comments and suggestions.

I would like to throw in some suggestions, please bear with me:

If you have the time, (I know it is not a luxury, since you run a company) next time pass the sound of the MS straight to the camera, since I noticed that one midifile you played as an example was the same one that you posted for the GM comparison (DANIELMIDI or something), and through the camera on-board microphone the sound was totally different and WAY BELOW the standards of what the MS is capable of.

I also think that your voice was a little low in volume, maybe doing this thing (the actions, pressing buttons, playing notes) on your own and THEN overdubbing your voice at a later time will give you the freedom to express yourself better, as you will have the time to rehearse and even record your voice sentence by sentence. Your accent, although very noticeable, did not actually deter me from understanding what was going on, and the overall "package" was much more to the point and A LOT more comprehensible than your written posts (which by the way have, improved over time, and take my word for that since English is not my mother tongue, I was just taught and my accent leaves a lot to be desired).

I believe I saw an enthusiasm in your voice, a sign that you really like this product and you believe that it is what you say it is. I liked that, since it will help you deliver the message in a powerful way, if you need to do a presentation in front of a crow of potential customers/investors, such as in a show.

I also believe that the camera was hand-held, if so, next time get a cheap tripod, it will save you the slight screen movements when zooming.

Thanks for reading,
Theodore

Hi all

I'm a totally blind musician from the UK, and I was very impressed by the sounds, and concepts behind the sounds, of the video which started this thread. Because I can't see the video (obviously), I am not clear how much can be accessed without the touch screen. Touch screens are a major non-starter for blind people (equally obviously), but if there's enough hardware access built in, or if, since it's a computer-based system, it could be run with a control surface, that would be one solution. alternatively, screen reading software exists, although I think it's currently quite rudimentary under Linux.

When I raised the question of a Windows-based approach, because of the screen reading software issue, someone pointed me at the Wersi Abacus review by Robert New. From this thread, it's clear that there's no relationship between the Abacus and the Media Station. However, I could ask the same questions ofWersi if I knew the correct email address, or if there's a Wersi person lurking on this forum.

I have to say here, with apologies to the moderator, that my primary interest is not as an arranger-keyboard player, impressive as the styles were on the Media Station. It was the flexibility and upgradability of the Media Station, and maybe the Abacus, which impressed me, plus the quality, even via the camera mike, of the audio engine. I'd like to hear a higher quality recording of those independent tempo stretching and pitch shifting functions - very impressive if that recording wasn't masking any nasty artefacts.

Where did the organ sounds in the organ section of the Media Station come from? That electronic Leslie was pretty convincing I thought.

This would be mainly for studio use, but a system of that sort, if it could be made accessible via screen reading software, which already exists, or control surfaces, which already exist, would be fantastic for me. Thanks for your time; I welcome all constructive input.

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Reg
Skype name regwebb

Hello Reg
Regarding Wersi OAS instruments, I regret to inform you that screen readers do not work as it is a totally separate program, which for stability uses as little as possible of the Windows XP operating system.
The screen size and the buttons on the screen are of quite a large size, and possibly cardboard templates could be made.
Every function can be stored in a preset, so if you had assistance setting the instrument up, it could be operated in that manner. (You can select voices and styles without the touch screen, but is does limit the amount you have direct access to)
The number of presets available is unlimited; however by default it is set at 2500, but can be altered. (Professionals tend to have it set at about 8000)
The UK contact is Harmony Music of Boston. http://www.harmony-music.co.uk/index.htm
01205 355366
Hope this helps

Bill

Thanks very much Bill, I may give them a ring to see if I can get a hands on demo somewhere.

So, to Media Station users, is there a control surface that runs under Linux, or is there enough hardware functionality built into Media Station to avoid the touch screen without losing too much. There is a Linux screen reader, but I don't know how developed it is. So, for now, I'd be concentrating on hardware-based solutions for accessibility.

A couple of other points on this thread. Whereas the Stevie Wonders of this world may have armies of techs to do stuff for them, the rest of us don't and, besides, I'd rather be able to do stuff for myself where possible. I think Ray Charles used to do his own editting.

Lastly, I agree with Frank that the use of the word "latency" in this thread is somewhat confusing. As somewhat who bought an Audigy sound card when he shouldn't have, I know what latency as normally described is - delay between triggering a signal and hearing it. I think that "loading time" would be a better description for Spalding's insistence that this keyboard should do what no other computerised system apparently can, IE load massive sample libraries in no time at all. As someone else said, that's not going to happen without gigs of memory.

My accessibility concerns are not mere special pleading. You'll notice how many professional engineers use a control surface in the studio. Many of the touch screen and menu driven interfaces so loudly marketed by manufacturers are actually put in place because they're cheaper to manufacture, not because they're more convenient for you. Obviously, I prefer separate knobs and buttons for every function; but maybe some of you would too. Who remembers the little programmers that Roland used to sell with their synths? I loved those.

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Reg
Skype name regwebb

Hello Reg
Give a check if this Audio Desktop is the one that you are looking for. http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/

Under Linux are available a lot of application for blind people.
Just let me know the right one that you like better and we can simple install in the mediastation.
Then, with 172 programmable buttons will really so easy for you use the mediastation.

Cheers

Thanks very much Dominic. Since I know as little about Linux as it's possible to know, I will take advice and try and learn something.

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Reg
Skype name regwebb

OS LINUX is not so hard to learning. Is simple for use and interface is also for blind people excellent. I want to program some parts and base knowledge of C++ is good for start. A lot of a applications are made for free. That is also good.


Best regards.

For general use, (Not special needs) why do you need to learn about a computer and its operating system, when all you want to do, is play and use an Arranger Keyboard?

Bill

With apologies for taking this off topic for this forum, but I don't seem to be able to mail you directly from here. It looks as though Emacspeak may be designed for specific applications. A more general Linux screen reader seems to be Speakup from: http://www.linux-speakup.org/speakup.html
although I have know idea how well it would work; it refers to the distributions of Linux under which it will run, but I don't know if this is in line with the version of the OS which you use.

I take Bill's point about learning a whole computer system for the sake of getting into this, but I'm used to learning curves for the sake of access, and if it got me stability and upgradability, I'd go for it. Right now, ignorance is my main problem, but I like the sound of those "programmable buttons".

Thanks to all for your help


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Reg
Skype name regwebb

It is not necessary. On start is keyboard working as standard arranger. But if you want something more you can simply add things as load a program. Also you can add

Best regards.

Hello Reg

Speakups is compatible with the Mediastation OS, we use Debian Linux and there give ready the package to install.
We have only to recompile the kernel for this new tool.
My developer will try to install it and in some weeks the new ISO will include this application.
I will test it and add some more feature, like when you will press one LED button, the Speakups will tell you what you have pressed.
In this way I think we will cover the FTF display and all the 172 LED buttons.

Thank you very much for this positive response. Do I have your permission to send a copy of your message to the midi-mag mail list, which, in spite of its name, is a general computer-based recording list for blind enthusiasts?

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Reg
Skype name regwebb