Spalding..
You asked me to shown IF the MS is able to open the VST and the Giga files and you saw that the MS is able.
Then IF you dont like in Live setting the latency issues when I switch from one engine to another, then I can JUST remain under the GM/GS engine, like one traditionally embedded keyboard.




I try to make the best possible, but for developing OS need time and slow slow we will arrival where the other are only dreaming.
We are now in the present, they have now to thinking what for a Keyb developing. Need years untill they can porting the embedded OS to the PC x86, believe me, just look the Oasys, 5 year project untill was ready.


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-30-2006).]

Dom you are missing the point and i am afraid this has been your problem all along. You are marketing this keyboard to the wrong market. I am an arranger keyboard player. This particular discussion board is an arranger discussion board. The things i have asked you to demonstrate are the things that any arranger keyboard player would require in a standard aranger keyboard. Your selling point with the MS is its ability to incorporate differnt sounds from diferent manaufacturers. Thats fantastic and i welcome that. But i want it to work in an ARRANGER KEYBOARD IN A WAY HAT ARRANGER KEYBOARD PLAYERS USE THEIR INSTRUMENT.

If you want to sell the keyboard to an arranger market then you simply have to incororate the points that i have raised. I have already told yo that your instrument in its current form could work well in a studio setting as the problems that i have highlighted may not be critical in that setting but they definately are critical in a live setting for a one man band /arranger player.

Stop being so defensive when you get POSITIVE FEEDBACK. I am not trying to put down the MS or yourself. I am constructively pointing to what areas must be improved if you want to break into the aranger market in a big way. For your own sake if you continue to market the keyboard without listening to th feedback you will continue to struggle with sales in the arranger market and worse, you will damage your credibility when people invest their money and realise the instrument does not do well what it was marketed as being able to do well !
"I don't think that 0.5 sec latency from switching engine VST/GIGA is a tragedy, when you start with one song I think you dont have to change the instruments 10/20 times.
Just look all the others Mp3 demos made with the other key, they switch the sounds max 2/3 times in ONE song/style.
Is a compromise, you want the all power and the best GIGA/VST sounds BUT you dont want have the delay, this is impossible and you know well, just read the oper topic about the softsynth. Bosendorfer 290 is 1900 Mb, do you want have it READY in 0.1 sec??"

Dom this is an example of the problem that i said about you not getting the right feedback from aranger players. If i switch sounds in one performance 2-3 times i cannot afford for your latencey issues to spoil the audience enjoyment in that one song !
"You told me to shown working the Kontakt and under MS is working. Of course Kontakt is NOT integratd in the MS OS and this mean that forever I have to use the Kontakt interface for loading manually the all instruments and setup every time.
How i told before, kontakt is not the best system for the styles/midifiles, because we have always to Pre loading a new sounds setups and waiting time"

Then dont you think that this limitation will impact upon the appeal of using all those wonderful sounds to an aranger keyboard player hat makes their living in a live play setting ? Come on dom , i am not trying to break yo down ! i am simply pointing to real issues you wil have to contend with if you wish to break into the aranger market. Dont try and tell me of because i want to use the keyboard as an arranger and it would seem that from your responses i cant unless i am happy to stick with gm sounds ! thats not the way the instrument has been marketed.....

"IF you look again in my webpage, you will see that soon we exit with the X-Kore Linux, where is possible setup and SAVE infinitly VST instrumenst and Hyperlinked in the MS button, like how we make with the GIGA sounds. http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/lspatch.png
under GIGA sampler we browser the GIG file and we Insert in the MS UI, with the X-Kore we will browser the VST.DLL files and we insert in the MS UI too.
The X-Kore will AUTOMATICALLY connect the audio and midi, setup the Volume gain and other midi parameter.
with this new FREE OF CHARGE system then you are ABLE to play how many VST you like in realtime.
BUT this do NOT mean that you dont have to waiting the first RUN time for loading the File.dll.
IF in your PC you can do, then show us how you make.
Or maybe you have 1Milion GHZ DualcoreX8 CPU??"

I wasnt aware of this....thats why i simply asked the question... But if i was not the cool headed person That i am ( most of The time) your answer would really piss me off.

Last bit Dom

All i have done is ask questions as someone genuinely interested in the MS as an arRanger player. I hope you accept that i simply wish to make sure that the instrument is ready RIGHT NOW to meEt my needs right now. If you dont want to end up with more bad customer experiences like you had with Craig (which i am glad you resolved honourably) then you better make it clear to your potential customers what the MS CAN AND CANT DO IN TERMS OF ARRANGER PLAYING AS THAT IS YOUR TARGET MARKET .

I have given you as much constructive feedback as i can. Like i said at he bottom of my last post

"The more you work with us, the more we are likely to want what you produce. Make no mistake, there are no other manufacturers that have taken the opportunity to work with its target market as you have been given.Please understand and jumpall over this opportunity as it will reap rewards many times over."

but i will add that the way you handle request for more information can also destroy any hope that you have in making a positive impact on your target market.

Bet wishes worth

"

Not trying to be controversial, just a comment, but.........

At least Korg didn't try to sell the Oasis in the 5 yrs it took to be ready............ (If you don't count the PC card). This is the crux of the matter.

Arranger play is timing CRITICAL. If you have to stay with just a GM/GS engine to be able to be responsive, where's the advantage for an arranger player? It's cool for the studio, but how do you gig one without some serious compromise?

Maybe multiple CPU running in tandem might get us there, but until all the promise is realized in a realtime/hardware-like fashion, gotta pass............

Dom said they were still working on eliminating any final latency issues ( Though I don't even think a WMV file is valid way to judge latency ). And like a computer you'll have to face there will be more prep time before it will be ready to use. If you were using a laptop live as a sound source you'd be facing exactly the same thing. Don't expect the Mediastation to be any different, everything is limited by the current state of technology.

As for hitting buttons that is simply a matter having to get your finger onto the correct onscreen item without selecting the wrong item. This depends entirely on the GUI provided by the application being used plus the size of the fonts being used. For live use I'd prefer to use applications that had large well separated buttons to make operations "error free" on stage. Of course it's a personal call whether you want to use a touch screen on stage or not. But in the studio it would be quite workable and a mouse could be used as well if preferred.

The number of button presses is just the same as it would be on using a mouse driven computer ( just more obvious ) and the most important thing is to then be able to save a setup so it can be recalled easily in one operation when it's needed.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 06-30-2006).]

Hi All
Operating systems constantly develop over time just as the Lionstracs system will, and being software based they will be able to add features that the customer wants more quickly.
As for needing further development, then consider this, should Microsoft have stuck with Windows 3.1, or a Mac with version 1 software, just because it didn’t do everything that everybody wanted, and then wait until Nirvana (Which can never be achieved) was achieved before releasing the next version?
BTW. With the Wersi OAS system all voices (No maters what instrument or sample they come from) are treated as just another voice. (With VSTs once you have loaded them in, you do not need to access them unless you wish to edit the sound, you just select what voice you require from a menu of available voices (As all arranger keyboards do) and then map it to a voice button.
Also please remember that the more memory you have the more voices can be loaded in to Ram at start-up. (This is the way a Wersi works and it can currently be expanded up to 4GB, Most Giga sample (And similar) VSTs require just 1GB of free Ram to work correctly)
Another point, please remember that Wersi have been making Organs/Arrangers since 1969, (Other manufactures have also had a long timeline) and so have a great knowledge of what people want, were as Lionstracs is quite young and still learning.
Hope the above addresses a few points, and also gives Domenik some ideas of how to further improve his instrument.

Bill

am i on a different planet ? Computers are different from musical instruments ! if you had a choice to buy a mirosoft product that didnt do what you wanted it to and another product that did which would you choose ???????

I dont want to get into any strife with anyone but please dont tell me its sensible to buy a product that isnt ready for what you want it to do now simply because it might be ready in a few years time especially when there are excellent alternatives that do what you want right now !

I will support any buisnes with my purchases if they can give me what i want in the way i want it. Right now it would appear he MS cannot. Lets not play around with words. I asked Dom some straight honest and searching questions as a genuine potential customer. I got back....well you can see for yourselves . If you want to purchase this instrument and help fund its developmental costs then be my guest.... I will wait until your funds have financed the project to completion and then i will take another look at it.

Dom said

"I'm totally sure that musician like Prince, Wonder...they will NEVER GIG's with one T2....
and We know that the T2 is the best arranger keyboard in the world.
But why they will not choose it? Think about..."

I am pretty sure that if Prince or Stevie wonder ever read this post they would never gig with a mediastation either......think about it ....

"

If for you is really important switching from style to style and sound to sound WITHOUT ant latency, then I will make a new Video and show you that the MS is able too, like the all embedded keyboard.
I have only to choose the right style without big GIG sounds or only styles developed under GM/GS, like the all normally keyboard.
Who will tell me that I MUST use the Midi-Audi-Giga styles IF I need to switch in realtime?
I can use the MS like a T2, without any type of latency.

So..I'm honest again:
1) If you want switch in realtime styles without latency, you have to use the MIDI styles
2) If you want play big Midi-Audio-Giga styles, you have to waiting for the preloading time and the switch latency.
The Mediastation is working only in this way, so..before someone will order one MS now he know the status.

About the big musician, you will see SOON who have ordered the X-88 for the concert, bacause is the only keyb that allow you to play GIGA, synth, Vst in realtime and they don't care about the 0.5sec latency when they switch engine.

I just made the Video styles that you had request: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/styleslatency.wmv

Let me know if is accetable the latency now.

I'm honest and I dont have nothing to hide in my OS, but of course we can make always better.

Domenik,
Finally decent informative video demos of your product! Much more convincing about the capabilities and potential of the MS.

Personally I don't need a keyboard to play cd's and DVDs for me, but I did like the rest of what I saw.

I thought perhaps a little involved using and routing some of the plug ins, but I suppose one gets used to it after a time or two.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Hello Domenik
You really should try and get your instrument over to one of the UK festivals, as then people will be able to try the instrument out and compare it with others, I’m sure it would go down well.
BTW At the larger festivals we get people from all over the world, not just the UK.
Here is a link. http://www.organfax.co.uk/holidays.html


Bill