Hi Frank,
I just had a quick peek at the Bandstand software. OK, it's GM but the blurb also said that it is a sampler?Unless I totally missed it, I didn't spot any mention of program / bank changes ?? (hopefully I'm wrong, and it's my eyesight going faulty. ).

What worries me a bit is, I vaguely remember my hardware samplers didn't support program changes, which made them useless for styles, the only thing I was ever able to use them for, was melody/lead voice.

Is that basically the same problem with some of your top quality softsynths like collosus, ie it can be used in a sequencer or as lead voice, but not in the style?

How does Bandstand differ?

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, there are some indications that it will accept program change numbers. I have acquired Bandstand. It should arrive within the next 2 weeks or so. Here is a quote that vaguely suggests program changes:

"An Accomplished Player

Whether it's your own composition or an all-time classic, BANDSTAND injects just the right sound and the integrated MIDI file player delivers the performance of a lifetime every time. Adjusting the mix or replacing instruments is easy. High quality effects, a loop function and groove quantization allows a personal touch to be added – BANDSTAND will change the way sound modules and GM are perceived."

The fact that you can change instrumets once a midi file is loaded seems to me that the midi file included program numbers which you can change once you have called it up within Bandstand.....wishful thinking...oh, oh, oh...

But you are right many others have claimed to accept program change numbers and in the end could not......kontakt, Colossus, and more. It almost seems like the software business uses the same principles as normally found in the used car business....sad.

The other thing that I think is important is the ability to change out voices to voices/instruments of your choice. Bandstand makes no claims about this that I can see......could be sad.

Nonetheless it is all so exciting.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 11-08-2005).]

Thanks for the info Frank. Assuming that the sounds are top notch ( no reason to think they won't be ) the single deciding factor for me purchasing it is whether Bandstand can accept program changes or not.

Unfortunately, as you and Rikki pointed out, it has also been my experience that others have claimed their modules / samplers would accept program and bank changes when in reality for the most part they didn't.

Hypersonic is the first that comes to mind. All the updates and supposed fixes and it still doesn't work right. Plugsound made no such claims, and in fact let the buyer know upfront that their modules could not read program changes, so at least I knew going in that they would function strictly as lead voices and studio modules. If Bandstand cannot accurately read program changes, while I'm sure it will be a great sounding module, having the PS series, I probably have enough good sounds already and won't need it.

Not sure what the big deal for these developers is about programming in the ability to accept bank and program changes, but then again I'm not a programmer. I have quite a few vsti's that can do this quite well, including several freewares. Soundfont's do it flawlessly each and every time, but as you aptly stated before Frank, the technology is getting a bit long in the tooth at this point.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-08-2005).]

Bandstand is not a sampler - it's a sample-playback program.

It's scary really - I've done several Google searches and read every press release about Bandstand... nothing clearly says that it will accept program changes. There's lots about how easy it is to change sounds and setup your own presets but there's nothing clear on accepting program changes from MIDI files. Sorry Frank... you can change sounds within Colossus too once a MIDI file is loaded so that quote you gave could equally apply to Colossus, which doesn't accept program changes from MIDI files as you know. And Colossus uses a the same sample-playback engine as Bandstand. I'm very worried that Bandstand is just a baby Colossus but I hope otherwise.

NI released Bandstand on 11/7 but I've decided to wait until the retail shops get their copies (Nov 11 more or less) before ordering. NI's online shop is charging full list + tax + shipping which jacks the price up to around $240 whereas I've found it online for as little as $172 with no tax & free shipping. I can wait a few extra days for that kind of savings.

ESH & AJ, I will let you know how well Bandstand works with styles & midi files. If I run out of money buying all this stuff I will use some of Rikki's.....she has more then she can spend in another life time or two.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 11-08-2005).]

Thanks Esh,
I was a bit loose with the word "sampler" obviously it's not.

Hi Frank,
I've probably got enough for 3 lifetimes by now, since you stopped me replacing 2 to 3 keyboards every couple of years ( haahaa , I WISH ) hubby owes you big time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[. If I run out of money buying all this stuff I will use some of Rikki's.....she has more then she can spend in another life time or two.



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-08-2005).]

Thanks Dnj,
that's not the same link as I had,so I picked up a bit more info.

Frank
One bit of good news I noticed in DNJ's link is that it appears to work with a 512mb computer
( though bigger would obviously be better )
Didn't notice if I would need a second hard drive??

I may wait and see before deciding between plugsound & bandstand just in case bandstand does do program changes. Fingers crossed.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-08-2005).]

Hi Guys,
I tend to think the real problem is that all these software sample players etc cater to the sequencer based user. Sequencers can obviously cope without program changes. Not having used any of these software sample players, I can only assume you assign an instrument to each track ??
Majority of users of these sample players, would probably use them for recording purposes be it for midifiles, mp3's cd's whatever. There's probably no great urgency for these companies to incorporate program & bank changes into the program if they work as is, for the majority of users.
Let's face it, it's us realtime arranger /softsynth users that are the odd one's out.

Meanwhile at least we have the opportunity of having great Lead/Melody voices using these sample players.

best wishes
Rikki

Actually, M-Audio's Key Rig is made for live performance and it sounds pretty good. By using Forte' as a VST host you can use Key Rig for both your live keyboard sounds and for your arranger style accompaniment or MIDI files (you would use the freeware MIDI Yoke as a virtual midi cable to connect Forte' to OMB or a sequencer). I think we all share the belief that Bandstand has the potential to sound even better than Key Rig, but Key Rig ain't too bad.

Here's a link to Joe Maas' tutorial on using OMB with VST's: http://www.1manband.nl/tutorials1/vst.htm