There is rebellion in the camp and it seems well justified.

What I mean by that is, there has been repeated discussions about the Tyros' Vocal Harmonizer on this and many other Forums. Tyros owners have been and are complaining that the VH on the Tyros is distorting for no apparent reason. That is; not because of any malfunction on the User's part, i.e. bad Mic, Mic volumes adjusted wrong, cheap Cables, etc.

Many of the Tyros owners also own the PSR 9000 or the PSR 2000, etc. and they (me included ) do not experience any distortion on the 9K or 2K such as they (me included) do on their Tyros's Vocal Harmonizer.

Which has many Tyros owners up in arms because Yamaha touted the Tyros' Vocal Harmonizer as superior to any prior Yamaha Keyboard.

So why are there multitudes of Tyros owners complaining about the Tyros VH then? >>Because it is NOT superior I suppose.

Here is just an inkling of what people are saying about the their displeasure with the Tyros VH:

Tyros vocal harmonizer error
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:35 AM (EST)
Hello Guys,

Following is my third attempt to reply on this subject.

I have addressed Tyros VH issue on various forums in recent months....incl the Yamaha supported site "Arranger Workstation Forum"

I have had lots of feedback & suggestions from members... but very little from Yam on the subject. I am a long time user of Yam products & currently have 8K 9K & T ......I can confirm without fear of contradiction that 9K VH works well....whereas the VH on T..is indistinct...lacks seperation & distorts to the point of being unusable.

Unfortunately I dont think enough users are complaining on this issue, so perhaps Yam believe if Ignored it will go away.....& so it might.....and so might some of their customers.

I, for one am not going away. Yamaha Advertised Tyros as havig "Stunning VH" so they should stand over that claim.....they are certainly in breach of their contract with customers if they don't......and have breached all advertising regulations. I see no reason why I should purchase a seperate VH unit when I have already purchased one in /with Tyros.....the responsibility is with Yamaha to correct the issue.

Perhaps there is an opportunity here to collaborate.....perhaps a little VH from disgruntled users might have some effect on the big Yam Corp.

So guys lets not let this issue die..die..die..(is that VH I hear)....a little more harmony & we just might get some results.

And as a famous man once said..quote " if you're not with us...then you're against us " unquote.

Thanks for listening & hope that's not the end.

LeoD (located..Rep. of Ireland)

_____________________________________________

This is just the tip of the iceberg IMO. I feel many other Tyros owners are perhaps too timid or lackadaisical to really pursue the problem with the Tyros Vocal Harmonizer malfunction/distortion issue. If we rally the troops, maybe we can convince Yamaha to provide a fix much like Scott Yee did with his constant bombarding of Yamaha with the "Repeat Fill to Self" function that was "missing" from the Tyros yet was ON most other much "less" expensive Yammie Keyboards.

>>> I agree with Leo!

Yamaha "Steve" are you listening?

This issue should NOT be swept under the rug by Yamaha!

The Tyros is OS updateable and Yammie's programers should work diligently to provide a "fix" IMO.

I experience the same 'distortion' and I'm disgruntled about it also. There is a bug with the Tyros VH and our $3,000 dollar Keyboard deserves to be bug free!

Steve, PLEASE pass this info on to Yamaha Japan. I'm sure they're aware of this problem but if we keep reminding them maybe they'll do something about it.

And hopefully soon, instead of waiting what seemed like an eternity for the Repeat Fill to Self feature to be resolved.

Btw, many thanks for all your help in getting the Repeat Fill to Self feature added to the Tyros Steve.

PS: You do want our business Yammie, am I correct? Then you should do everything in your power IMO to get it - and more importantly to "keep it". Don't advertise one thing, and then not correct it when the statements are not true and accurate. Instead, Yamaha should "fix" their mistake.

Best regards,
Mike

Yes, let me add my voice to that. I previously had a PSR 8000, and had no problem using the VH. But with my Tyros .... distortion is not the word .... it is trully unusable. I don't think that any paid performer would even consider using it. I'm not a singer, but I do employ singers, and was very upset (though I just live with it) to find that the VH is absolutely unusable. I can't even overemphasize it. I'm overall happy with Yamaha products, but I can't understand how they were not embbarrassed to release it as is.

I also doubt we'll hear from them. Firstly, I assume that it is a hardware problem. Secondly, talk has already begun on a new Tyros, so I doubt they'll be paying any attention to this.

But it doesn't hurt to let it out.

Chony

I had mentioned the same thing, a while back and everyone told me I must have the gain too hi or using the wrong type of adapter and overdriving the VH input.

Come on Yamaha , you made a great product, great OP system, (except for limiting reg's to 8) why not let it go to greatness status?

As both a nearly 2 year old Tyros owner & former PSR2000 owner myself, I've NEVER experienced 'out of norm' VH distortion problems with 'my' Tyros. In fact, in a side by side comparison with the PSR2000,the Tyros harmonizer was dramatically improved (clearer more distinct harmonies).

Mike, Chony, Frankieve: I suspect one of two reasons for this possibly occuring on your Tyros keyboards.

1) Microphone (brand/model) used:
My experience has shown that a mic which includes a very high (HOT) output) signal is most critical when used with a keyboard built-in VH harmonizer unit. The hotter signal going into the board the less you need to boost the signal with the mic trim knob (back of the keyboard) or mic volume knob (on top of the keyboard). My question is at what level do you have the 'mic trim' and 'mic volume' knobs set at? Both of mine hover at around (more or less) the 1:30 position.

I've tested several mics with my Tyros and found that Electro-Voice brand mics provide the highest signal output, and deliver the best VH results (without distortion or harmony dropout). I recommend the model ND767a: http://www.electrovoice.com/Electrovoice/products.nsf/allpages/937B84C17B940EBE 86256B96005D42AD

2) VH Harmonizer (defective part)
If the mic knob settings or low mic signal output is not the issue, then, if you have updated to the latest Tyros OS 1.40, I would suspect it to be a Vocal Harmonizer HARDWARE problem, and perhaps a bad production run that may have included a batch of faulty parts.

I recommend that each of you email Steve Deming at ycasupport@yamaha.com and OFFICIALLY report the problem, as:

"that's the ONLY way" you have a chance of getting your Tyros VH problem fixed.

Yamaha will then assign you a case number. Keep track of that number. The more cases of this problem Yamaha receives the sooner they will act. I know because I've gone thru this song and dance routine.

I admit I had to hop, skip and jump thru at least a few hoops and wait (a LONG time (months) ) but Yamaha did finally come thru, acknowledged & corrected the Tyros USB hardware connection problem I was having (and thankfully with Yamaha covering all expenses (including shipping) as well . If the problem indeed is a wide spread (faulty) hardware problem, I'm pretty sure Yamaha will cover it under warranty, even if your specific unit is past the warranty period. At least that was the case with the USB hardware problem I encountered.

Good luck and please keep us informed.

Scott

Scottyee,
I am encouraged to hear that youre VH on T works , as I'm one of those guys who has worn fingures from postings on this issue...I've had numerous suggestions made by users, and I have addressed the issue with Steve of Yamaha and on the Arrangerworkstation(Yamaha site)...but as yet have had no satisfaction whatsoever, or Yam acknowledgement of the problem. I also have started a Poll on the issue ..which is not getting any response...this to me is very strange as I know that there is a problem out there ...as you suggest it may be confined to a Prod. batch & not all Ts ..but the prob is MAJOR to anyone needing VH facility
I have also been quoted above on this thread.
I can also state that I use a Shure SM58 which is specifically named by Yam as most suitable for T..

As has been said on this thread WE..with the problem need support from Steve / Yamaha
& at the moment that's not happening

LeoD


------------------
LeoD...Committed to Live
Performance & use of M.Pads

Leo, I'd like to help, but the SM58 works great on my Tyros. The VH isn't as good as the external units, but to me it works as it is supposed to. But I've always been lucky!!
DonM

I've tried using both my SM58 and Beta 57 mics and got major distortion regardless of how low I set the gains related to the harmonizer.

I then tried an EV MD 431 and found it to be much better than the Sure mic. However, at times, I STILL found some distortion occurring.

A few months ago I gave up on it and bought a used external harmonizer. I'm very happy with it...

Bill in Dayton

Mike,

Have you removed all effects off of the Vocal Harmony?

Early on, Yamaha recommended removing these effects since the Vocal Harmonizer and the Effects processer are the SAME!!!!!!

That means valuable CPU cycles are being drawn from the DSP processors when Effects are used.

Try that and let me know how you make out?

Al

I've come to learn that the Yamaha mic input is stingy. It only "likes" even, moderate signals and if you shout, or push a vocal .... it overloads. I had to revise my style of singing ( which really BUGS me )during harmony usage. It's an inferior system to the standalones, but it's not a malfunction. Just sing ez and steady and don't push it or it'll sound like crap. If your vocal styling is too dynamic, like mine can get .... you need to either calm down or use something else.
It's not broken....just mediocre. I opt to use it in a reduced fashion in stead of lugging more gear, but my the studio - it's never used. I have a TC Helicon and a Digitech that work great.

Hey people! I don't mean to be rude, but some of you just don't seem to be reading what we're writing!

Its not the mic. Its not the input. And its not just "mediocre". IT IS BROKEN!! The kind of distortion levels I am getting on this machine - are crazy. As soon as you add VH and / or effects to the original voice, it suddenly sounds like you're listening to yourself through smashed speakers!

Okay, now I'm calm(er).

Chony

Chony, I'm not sure WHO you were refering to when you said 'some of you', but I for one, read you loud and clear. As I said before, if if yours is not a low output mic or with the Tyros mic trim/mic vol settings, then, as I STATED before, you are gonna HAVE to email or to speak with Steve Deming at Yamaha USA directly (714) 522-9011 to get a CASE NUMBER started for your complaint. You may need to repeatedly plead YOUR CASE to him (as I had to), as well as find others willing to contact Yamaha & start case complaint numbers as well, before you see any resolution, as this is exactly what Steve Deming advised me when I reported the Tyros 'fill to self' & USB port hardware problem. It took (a LONG) while, but it finally got resolved. Good luck and give Steve Deming my regards when you speak with him. I'm sure he's happy not hearing from me lately. - Scott

I have to say that I have had success using the Tyros Vocal Harmonizer. As with all of these devices, certain cautions must be used. I agree with Uncle Dave. You have to control the Vocal Harmonizer, you can't let it control your voice by screaming into the Mic; It just won't handle the overload.

In LeoD's situation, he fails to mention he is using TWO Shure SM58's Y-Jacked together and input into the 1/4 mic input of the Tyros. This could have a huge impact on his results.

Al

Y-jacking mic's will introduce problems. I once made a Y-jack adapter to hook up two SM57's for a leslie and it severely changed the freq response of the mics.

.... what is the purpose of the 2 mics jacked together? ...
t.

hmmm . . . perhaps its for "hi-jacking" 2 singers in a duet of yet another awful chorus of that 70's tune: "Feelings".

Scott

Two mics into the same quarter-inch jack will not work. This creates a horrible impedience mismatch that essentially renders both mics useless. Granted, there will be sound generated by the mics, but you must keep in mind that Ohm's Law comes into play here. The mics are essentially made using a moving diaphram with a coil beneath it. That coil of very thin wire has a resistance, which is halved with another similar coil is placed in parallel with it. Consequently, the impedience of the mics, when in parallel, is divided by two, thereby overloading the input device, which in this case is the vocal processor.

I agree that most onboard vocal processors are sub-standard when compared to stand-alone , MIDI-controlled, vocal processors. And, while the effects such as reverb, echo, delay, are just fine, the harmonies leave a lot to be desired. That's why I have a pair of Digitech VRs (one for back-up) and use it whenever possible. As Dave, and anyone else who has used the external processors will tell you, there is no comparison.

BTW, I don't have a powerful voice, therefore, when I use either the onboard or external processor, I don't usually have a problem. However, I did try to mimic the problems using the PSR-2000 and 3000, and both will distort using any mic if the volume is turned up too loud, or if you put the mic real close to your lips and sing extremely loud. The mics I tested were the SM-58, Sennheiser 855-E, Crown CM311-A and Samson Q7. The same mics plugged into the Digitech VR performed flawlessly using normal singing levels. However, if you crank up the input level and sing loudly into the mics using the VR, it too will distort. Dave's statement about voice control is right on the money.

Hope this is of some help to those experienceing problems,

Gary

Well I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Btw, my Effect button is ON when using the VH Al. I have the DSP in Effects on "DSP 6"/MIC/HALL 1. That may well indeed be my problem. I will try it "dry" and let you guys know the results when I'm able.

If after exhausting all other avenues I and/or others still have the problem then it may well be a batch problem and most likely a Hardware problem as stated. It would be interesting to know the approximate 'serial' numbers on the Ty's affected. If they are all in close proximity that would bolster the theory of a batch problem and it should bolster the case with Yamaha I would think.

Also, I have the Shure Beta87A which is a Cardioid Mic but if Yamaha is saying the Shure 58 is ideal I would have no reason to believe my 87A is any less ideal. The SM58 is a dynamic Mic of course but I "DO" supply my 87A with proper Phantom power you realize.

I might try a different Cable going from my Rolls Phantom Power Adapter output to the Ty's Mic input also if turning the Effects button off doesn't correct it.

Best regards,
Mike

Hey Guys,
It's LeoD with some clarification on the issue of 2 Mics into KBD.
1) I have successfully used 2 Mics into 8k & 9k without any difficulty ...for years.
2) only one Mic at any time is used with VH operating...I am well aware that any VH is cofused by 2 seperate signals at the same time.
3) On 8k & 9k the only downside to 2 Mics in is a slight drop in power/sensitivity, but definitely no detioration in quality.
4) On 8k & 9k I have also used mikes in via passive mixer..again successfully.
5) On Tyros distortion of VH occurs just the same with ONE Mic Only directly in .

There is a lot of good info on ths thread & I thank you all for that. I am no techie, but I do know when Mic is working properly or not.

The point made about adjusting one's voice, is interesting and I would have thought very reasonable...except it does not explain how the same singer singing the same song, using the same VH selection will cause T to distort (badly) and be clear as a bell through 9k.

Come on guys give me some credit....
I have also made the point that Yamaha's instructions on 'Proper Mic Wiring'..is WRONG...and..DOES NOT WORK.,...Somebody anybody please go to www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/KnowledgeBase..
last Par. with supporting Diag..QUOTE " If using a low imp Mic with a detachable cable, use a cable which has an XLR connector on one end and a Tip/Ring/Sleeve 1/4male plug on theother. Also the jacks MUST be wired as shown...UNQUOTE..diagram
shows XLR-*2hot...to BalPhone -Tip(hot)
XLR-*3cold..to..Bal Phone-CenterRing
XLR-*1Gnd...to BalPhone- Sleeve

The above instructions apply to SHURE SM58 which also happens to be recommended by Yam as SUITABLE.. for use with 8k-9k & T

The fact is that the only way a Mic can be used in any of the KBDs mentioned is if ppins *1 & *3 i.e Cold & Gnd are both connected to GROUND...either at XLR or Jack end .

Now I hope this helps to clarify any misconceptions or misunderstandings I may have created. The fact remains that Ihave 3Yam KBDs...on 8&9k 1&2 Mics in do work-but use only 1 at a time in VH mode...on T no 1&2 Mics work fine but in VH mode even with only i mic in ..VH does not work..distorts.


Respectfully,
LeoD.

[This message has been edited by LeoD (edited 11-11-2004).]

Scott, this is exactly the reason I'm not planning on calling Steve Demming. I'm not interested in having a prolonged and painful discussion until I get this resolved. I watched you try to get to a resolution for six months for your USB problem with very dissappointing restults all along the way. And quite frankly I don't have the time or energy for that kind of perserverence.

Its dissappointing because I know that when I have a problem with my laptop for example, they give me no problems at all. I bring it in, they fix it the same day, and I'm a very happy customer.

Chony

A QUESTION about using those Y plugs.

There's been discussion about using the Y plug for 2 mics. But can a Y plug work the other way? For example can I plug the two prong side into an L and R output, and the one prong mono plug into a mono mixer input?

Leo, at this point, it sounds like you better take MY suggestion, and contact Yamaha Europe RIGHT AWAY to get an official case number initiated. It's sounding more & more like a "hardware (batch?) defect" that could be corrected with a VH board replacement. Until you (and the rest of you guys with this problem) do this, nothing said here is going to fix it. Believe me. I've been there.

Chony, the problem in my situation was that (according to Steve at Yamaha USA), there were'nt enough (or any) other people complaining to get Yamaha Japan to take notice. In your case here, there may be enough of you out there to force the issue and get quicker action. Power in numbers they say. I say, at least make the effort and report a case with them on this issue. If you don't 'at least' do that, then (no offense), but you really have no grounds to complain.

Scott

Hey Guys..
Additional to my last post above..

Can anybody confirm for me that the wiring as stipulated by Yam & described by me above
is actually working fir them...

If YES then that means that my T is miswired
probably at the Mic in stage...What annoys me is that all efforts by me to clarify this with Yam have been ignored and I don't like that.

LeoD

Leon,

when I clicked the link it said the page have been moved. However, if this is the way they said to wire the cable (XLR-*2hot...to BalPhone -Tip(hot)
XLR-*3cold..to..Bal Phone-CenterRing
XLR-*1Gnd...to BalPhone- Sleeve) something is wrong. Pin #3 is the hot pin on most XLR mic cables. And, in my adapter cable for the PSR-3000 pin #3 connects to the tip, and pin #1 is connected to the sleeve. I have another adapter that pins #1 & #2 of the XLR are connected together and go to the 1/4-inch plug's sleeve. Pin #3 goes to the 1/4-inch plug's tip.

Hope this is of some help,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 11-10-2004).]

Garry, yes you have it right per Yamaha ..which is what I've been saying all along...including to yamaha...maybe that's why they moved the page...

If I knew how to upload the page I would do so for all to see failing that ... perhaps I could Fax..to you or to the forum ???

Thanks
LeoD

You unlucky fellows, it's too bad you didn't discover this problem during the 30 day return period. It sounds like a sizeable group of people got Tyroses with defective harmonizers.

I remember that many people who purchased the PSR2000 had speakers that buzzed at louder volumes.

If you guys don't want to merely whine, and you want to get this fixed, I would go to my local Yamaha repair center and schedule a date for them to look at your Tyros without leaving it there. Ask them that if parts are needed, if they can close up the keyboard and let you use it in the meantime. This way, you will only be without a keyboard for several days.

Good luck!

Beakybird


[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 11-10-2004).]

Leo,

Scan the page into your computer, or if you have the page in graphics form, just email it to me at keyboard@bcpl.net

Gary

Al, you are a GENIUS!!

As I stated in my post earlier today, I had the Mic Effects "ON". I tried it without the Mic Effects and the problem went away. For me at least.

Thanks for the tip Al!

I hope others get theirs resolved soon.

There are many things that can be tried to fix it short of having the Tyros shipped to a Yammie repair center. A simple button push on mine did it. My advice is please try and exhaust all avenues before you send it in for repair. For example: you can try another Mic, other Cable[s], other settings, other Mic settings, even other EQ settings.

I would like to mention that my Tyros does NOT like TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) 1/4" connectors into the Mic Input. I had to use a TS (Tip, Sleeve), i.e. MONO 1/4" connector for my Tyros' Mic input. If I used a TRS 1/4" Mic Cable connector the sound would distort, "especially" when the Harmonizer was ON. Yet my PSR 2000 gladly accepts TRS 1/4" Mic Cables with no problems distorting with VH on or off. Go figure...

Yet others were saying that they could NOT use TRS 1/4" Mic Cables in their PSR 2000's because it WOULD distort. Go figure again...

Also, a while back I was complaining that my Tyros was having a volume spike problem when hitting a random Key, with or without Style accompaniment. I tried different EQ settings in the Mixer's Master EQ section and the problem disappeared.

So there is hope. I would have never guessed that the Mic Effects being on when using the VH would be the cause of the distortion I was experiencing when using the Vocal Harmonizer.

I am grateful that others here on the SZ have provided tips and have knowledge that I am/was not privy to and many times that tip or tidbit of knowledge is just the thing needed to get the problem corrected.

Thanks again Al and others for sharing your advice and knowledge with me and fellow SZ members. It is much appreciated guys!

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-10-2004).]

Ok Scott, you got me. Is the only person to call Steve Demmings or is there an official Yamaha department that deals (and listens) to these problems?

Fantastic Mike!!! Glad I could help.

Even with the Effects off, remember, you still have to modify your vocal style somewhat with the VH switched on. As Uncle Dave suggested, your volume levels have to drop a little into the microphone to avoid getting distortion spikes.

Now that you fixed your problem, this does not absolve Yamaha from admitting they goofed when they overloaded this DSP chip the way they did. There are times I want to use Mic effects on along with the VH.

It's a shame we have to work around the issue like this. Perhaps Yamaha can incorrporate a TC Helicon unit in future arranger keyboards.

Regards,
Al

I just reveived Yamaha's mic cable adapter wiring diagram from Leo, and guess what--it's dead wrong. Every diagram shows an XLR cnnector with pin #2 as the hot wire and pin #3 grounded. I checked every mic I have, which is way too many, and all have pin #3 as the hot pin--NOT GROUND!

I also checked with the local tech and he said "Pin #3 is always the hot pin, at least on every mic we sell at the store, and even if it has a floating output, pin #3 is still hot. If you were to ground Pin #3 with a floating output, this would cause distortion, especially if you were singing at a high level."

Additionally, Yamaha's keboard wiring diagrams, at least the PSR-2000, 740 and 3000, show a mic input jack that is a standard, 1/4-inch, mono plug--not a TSR.

Hope this is of some benefit to those experiencing problems,

Gary

Interesting thread......

Here's the link to the article:

Click here...

Here's what it says:



-mike

Wow, if trying to figure out the proper cable wiring and pin configuration scheme are confusing you, I recommend just using either of the two following microphone cables from Radio Shack:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=33-4012
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=33-4014

I own both of the above cables, and can assure either works well on the Tyros.

On the subject of the Tyros mic 'EFFECTS'. For whatever reason, on my Tyros, running BOTH mic 'effects' & 'VH' concurrently, doesn't appear to be affecting (distorting) the quality of my vocals or harmonies at all.

Whether it's my vocal technique (I'm known for having a very strong 'loud' voice btw) or the mic (Electro-Voice 767) I use, or the above radio shack cable, or combination of the above, this configuration works well, at least for me.

Scott

Chony, the dept at Yamaha USA responsible for handling these issues is PSR Keyboard Customer Support. Steve Deming just happens to be the HEAD of this dept. You can speak to anyone at Customer Support, but I recommend going directly to the top man. - Scott

Scott,

That same cable is sitting on my desk. Check it out with an ohm meter and you'll find pin #3 is connected to the tip--not pin #2. Pin #1 is connected to the sleeve.

Gary

Guys,

Please keep in mind that this is not an official Yamaha site and that posting here does not mean Yamaha is jumping into action. I mostly lurk here, because I believe its in the best interest of Yamaha and our customers for me to know what you guys are experiencing and thinking. I try to get here every day, but some days I just can't. If you want me to do something, you'd better call me or email me. For those of you outside the US, contact your local affiliate. So, are Mike and Al and Leo all experiencing the same thing? Does distortion acurately describe the problem? Does turning off the effects on the VH resolve the issue completely? Are there any other factors, that we should be looking at?

The VH unit on the Tyros is the same (as per the spec) as the PSR9000 etc. Obviosly , there are some different parts. Scott's and Don's are working fine, and we have 2 units that we've tested that have no problem as far as I can tell.

I don't address problems with design myself, I have to report them the our design team. It usually takes a while to get problems resolved, but it takes longer if it's not reported.

Before I can report it, I need details. Is this some units that behave differently than most, or some customers whose application is different than most?

Awaiting your reply,



------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

I have noticed that if there is much sound at all from the speakers/p.a. reaching the vocal mic, the harmonizer is quick to "reharmonize" these sounds and distort. Also, it is easy to over-e.q. the mic. In this case, even though the mic sounds good, the harmonizer will break up if certain frequencies are too dominant.
Having said all this, I suspect that some units do have problems that mine doesn't exhibit.
DonM

Gary,
I can make up a cable tomorrow and try it...but I'm still a little confused.

Q1..Are the connections to St.Jack correct per Yam's Diagram.

Q2..OK pin 3 should be Hot
What pin then for GRd...is it 1 or 2

Guess what if you tell me I bet I can figure the Pin for..Cold ! ! !

Thanks
LeoD

Leo,

Pin #3 connects to the 1/4-inch plug's tip.

Pin #1 connects to the 1/4-inch plug's sleeve.

Pin #2 connects to pin #1.

Both pins #1 and #2 are grounded. This is the same configuragion in three adapters that I have and use regularly.

If you were using a floating system with an XLR to TSR hook-up, Pin #3 connects to the 1/4-inch plug's tip.

Pin #1 connects to the 1/4-inch plug's sleeve.

Pin #2 connects to the 1/4-inch plug's ring. I only have one of these adapter cables, and I've never used it, but that's how the circuit rings out with the Ohm meter.

Good Luck,

Gary

GARY,
I just want to add a little extra confusion. When I fist came across the Yam Wire Diag. I went out and purchased
a BAL-XLR to PHONO cable. First thing I did was check the connections...&..they were / are exactly per Yam's diag...

I have that cable here in front of me, but of course I have never used it, because it doesn't work. I am really getting confused, because I have other Bal cables like this (not for Mic use, but con between Active speaks..& they are all wired per Yam's Diag.

The connection I currently use on T is wired as follows
XLR end.....*1-Gnd, *2-Hot, *3-Cold
Jack end....Gnd-Sleeve + Bridged to Cold which conected to centre ring.
....Hot to Tip

Let me add that this works as NORMAL...
on all my Yam's no buzz/hiss/dist/etc..except..VH on T which may be affected by this wiring...I wont know until I make nacessary changes per your instructions...As far as I'm concerned what you say makes sense, & gefore I ever got into this...I would have expected HOT to connect to Centre-Pin*3 of XLR...as you suggest.

So I'm off now to make up cable starting with Hot to *3 & we'll see what happens.

I wish I was a techi...'cause a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Talk to you again soon

Thanks
LeoD

P.S It's not that my spelling's sp bad..I just keep hittin' wrong Keys..same as on KBD

PS Again..The fact that Yam's Diag shows a Stereo Jack for input must suggest that not onlt 'T' but the other KBDs mentioned are fitted with a Stereo Jack Socket...Now we all know that a mono Jack works ...but surely YAM have a responsibilite..STEVE..to explain this to us all .



[This message has been edited by LeoD (edited 11-12-2004).]

To Address Steve's request, I think we should put together a use case test that we can all follow to test our Tyros. Then report results back to Steve for him to either ignore/report back to Yamaha.

A use case would go as follows:

1. Plug in a Shure SM58 with XLR --> 1/4 Jack adapter into Microphone Input of the Tyros.
2. Adjust Microphone input gain on back of Tyros to 50% (halfway point).
3. Adjust microphone output volume next to power button to 3/4 volume.
4. In Mixer, adjust Microhpone gain to 90%
5. Adjust EQ settings for Microphone to Mid-Point or FLAT.
6. Turn on Vocal Harmony button.
7. In Mic settings, ensure Effects selected is HALL.
8. Turn on Microphone Effects button.
9. Select "MixAcapQuar" Vocal Harmony setting
10. Place Microphone 1" (2.54cm) from mouth
11. Turn on "Acmp" button
12. Play a Cmaj Chord and Sing into the Microphone.
13. Note any or lack of distortion.
14. proceed back to step 8, but Turn OFF Effects button and repeat steps 10 through 12.
15. Repeat steps 9 through 12 with different
effects types.

Post results on this forum.

Several months ago, the question of whether or not the mic input was mono or stereo (balanced) came up. At that time, I posted the wiring diagram for the psr-2000/2100, which clearly shows that the input was not balanced, though Yamaha used a stereo input jack. In fact, all of their 1/4-inch jacks were wired in mono, and several Tyros owners did test their board and discovered the mic input was mono as well. If I recall, Steve Demming also responded on that post and said the input was mono. Therefore, using a mic splitter or "Y" and a TSR adapter just doesn't make sense. I wish I were able to come to your Saturday night job, analyze the problem and come up with a viable solution. Short of this, I guess the only thing is to try all of the suggestions posted on the forums and hope one of them works.

Good Luck,

Gary

Hi there Gary /Guys..

HOLD EVERYTHING...I THINK I'VE GOT IT....VH PROBLEM SOLVED...at least for me...

BACKGROUND: On Thurs. I was on visit to the Pipeliners Site when I happened to stumble on his suggested EQ sets 'To make 9K Sizzle'

I was gob-smacked when I saw the EQ sets, but at same time remembered Yamaha's note re extraneous noise effect on VH,especially BASS as cause of distortion ..Manual Page 47..small print.

I set off upstairs to do some tweekin'& check out Pipeliners EQ sets. 4 hrs later I emerge with what I believe is a cure for VH distortion...without turning off Revb, or taming the Vocals...and it's all to do with Master EQ settings..see Chart...

.................EQ1 EQ2 EQ3 EQ4 EQ5
-----------------------------
T-PA Preset 0 -3 -1 -2 +1
Pipeliner Sizzle 0 +8 +12 +12 +12
LeoD-Crisp +2 +3 +6 +9 +12
LeoD-Medium +2 +2 +5 +7 +10
--------------------------------------------

Note all T Preset EQs very similar..& quite dull..compared to 8k-9k, but Pipeliner are a little too sizzly for me...so using Crisp & Medium above...have waited until today for my buddy Vocalist to Test same....WOW !

Using SM58 & Ano (name rubbed off)..T was connected to 2-150w Active spks. Mics..2 via Y con direct into T ...no ext mix desk
dont laugh ' cause once you use only 1 Mic at a time on VH..it works. We tried various VHs..& songs incl Masset....es, which really extends my friend especially when he goes falseto at the end...but try as we did we couldn't get the thing to distort....I swear..I swear..so I do!!!

This post may seem a little garbled to you, but I'm not Drunk...I just lost the first half above & had to re start....I just may go out now & get drunk 'cause I've suffered with this problem (no not drink) for far too long...& I'm at last in TYROS ECSTACY !!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I tell no lie...it works...it just needs confirmation from your good selves. The reason I think this works is because increasing the EQ sets...removes Boom & unecessary bass freq. across the whole Frequency range...I'm not technical so can't explain it any other way.

And especially for Gary..I made up a cable per your notes i.e.XLR pin3hot to Jack-Tip,
and it works (I never doubted it would) but guess what...so does my old connector which has Pin*2 to Jack-tip.....nly slight drop off in responsiveness/vol...but 'IT' DOESN'T DISTORT EITHER. What on earth were Yam thinkin about with that Mic Wiring Diagram...I switched from a mono Jack which I used on 9k ...because of this Diag...thinking that it must needed .


I don't think there is any need to give details of other sets..Mic EQ,Comp, Gain, Vols...but will do if anyone wants.

The important thing now is for you guys to try this out and see if you get similar results....Your T will be a hell of a lot Brighter, but low end remains distinct in fact everything is much more distinct & clear.

What I dont understand is why Yamaha havn't
come up with a similar solution.

Lets have the feedback now...am I right or am I right...If I am and Steve..is Lurking
I guess he & mr Yamaha owe me....maybe a T2
or 3 or 4....We'll see. Are you there Steve

So lets have the Feedback guys ASAP ...I just can't wait.

LeoD..Nov 12th.2004
Q.E.D
**************


[This message has been edited by LeoD (edited 11-12-2004).]

[This message has been edited by LeoD (edited 11-12-2004).]

[This message has been edited by LeoD (edited 11-12-2004).]

I purchased the TYROS last year during November. I was excited because the VH was included and I had less wire to carry including the DIgitech Workstation EX. Using an SM Beta 58, I purchased a monster cable for it thereby having no question of a proper signal. I monitored this forum all year for the different settings. The end result: I PURCHASED A TC HELICON VOICE WORKS. When I sing back-up and use my voice, I want my voice to sound like there are 3-4 more people behind me. Not distortion. When using the Tyros, I had to use my voice very lightly in order to get the harmony out without distortion so I wasn't really singing, only whispering. You guys are right. Yamaha should either compensate us for a defective section of the keyboard. I even tried a Shure Beta 87A, but no phantom power. Why don't they just contact TC helicon and gain an update for the Tyros so we an use the VH. What a waste. This was one of the features I purchased this keyboard for.

[This message has been edited by firehead (edited 11-12-2004).]

Hey There ...It's Junior Member LeoD ..again
--------------------------------------------

Since I'm just sittin' here waiting on reaction I thought I'd jot down the rest of the settings I'm using....they may/may not be relevant,as there are so many variables,so take 'em as approximates

Mic Gain Input......12 o'clock (mid Point)
Mic KBD Vol Pot.....12-2 o'clock(mid Point)
Mic EQ..Low.-6...Mid.+2....High.+8
Mic Freq..Low-110hz, Mid-1.6khz, High-7khz
--------------------------------------------
Noisegate...ON...Thresh -72 to -40 variable
Compressor..ON...Thresh -25 to -6 Ratio 1-3 Vol 100 to 127.
--------------------------------------------
Voc Harm...KBD-Lower...Bal to pref...Mode Auto/Chord....chord XF..Mute-OFF.Vol 100-127
--------------------------------------------
Settings apply to SM58...One decent vocalist doin' anything from Ave Maria to Unchained Mel. to Jerry Lee...& one croaker doin' as little as he can...the odd do-do-da-da & a bit of the Blues..

So there you have it guys...now I need your comments, criticism, observations....and if you're happy.....your applause, better still ...all contributions gratefully received.

Thank you, & as they say over here 'May the road ahead rise up to meet ya'

I love it when she talks dirty like that!!

Regards
LeoD

No matter what they say, the Tyros' vocal harmonizer is an utter piece of crap UNLESS YOU HAVE A NATURALLY GOOD VOICE/PITCH.

Leo,

Glad you were able to solve the problem, both for yourself and lots of others--it saved me a long flight to Ireland as well.

Digitalvision,

Your contributions to this site seem to those of a person that has an axe to grind. Your comments, IMO, seem degrading to those of us who spend an enormous amount time perfecting our skills by learning from others, and by trying to aid those in need of help. If you have an opinion based on fact, one that would provide some insight to those of us who are obviously less knowledeable about the music industry than yourself, it would be nice if you would express them in such a manner that the information would benefit other forum members. I'm confident that all of the forum's membership would enjoy hearing a song posted by you, one that included both a musical and vocal performance. We're always willing to learn from talented individuals such as yourself.

Gary

Gary,
Will you try out the settings & let me know what you think..& ..it's not that long a flight to Ireland...so on yer bike lad & get over here...We'll look after ya!..you wont even d[need to bring yr KBD..I go 3 of them here.
Thanks again for all the help in the past few weeks...I guess I at least owe you a Guinness.

Regards,
LeoD

Gary,

Ditto!

Digitalvision,
I have suspected that for a long time now, but have had Yam gear for many years, & deep down I couldnt really accept that their Flagship Kbd..could have such a bad VH.
I have persevered with this issue for months, and in recent weeks since I joined this & a few other like Forums, I've had nothing but support & help from many people.

They have spent a lot of time & effort trying to get some solution to the problem, and I am very grateful to all of them for their contributions.

As for your own input above...well it's your opinion & you are entitled to that, but it's really not very much help now is it?...so I guess I'll just echo Garry's comments.

LeoD

Leo,

I'll try the settings Monday, which is the only day between now and then that I'm not performing. As for the trip to Ireland, who knows, maybe next summer after the real boss retires.

Cheers,

Gary

You're absolutely correct. It is BROKEN. I've tried 7 different mics and have spent countless hours "tweaking" the settings. I finally said screw it, and purchased a TC Helicon Voice Works. My PSR9000 harmonizer was much better.

I think I should look into a new carreer. Hey, why not! At 64 years of age, I don't have a lot of years left, and there are things I have not done yet.

In this particular instance, I think Yamaha should provide me with a large quantity of repair parts for the PSR Tyros series of keyboards (assuming they'll come out with another Tyros), unlimited travel expenses and fly me all over the world to diagnose and solve keyboard problems. I know that many of us are doing this at no expense to Yamaha right now, but what they really need is an airbourne agent, one that knows the musical entertainment, OMB biz, has sufficient technical expertise to diagnose problems and fix them on the spot, plus the ability to communicate with individuals around the globe in a reasonable time frame.

OK Steve Demming, the ball's in your court. Pass this along to upper level management, tell them there's an old man out there with those credentials who can perform this service for a reasonable salary, plus travel expenses. Time's running out--I'm an old guy, so keep this in mind.

Gary

Hey There,
All of a sudden topic just dies..
after all that discussion...is there no confirmation out there that LeoD suggested settings ..work.
ESPECIALLY SILENT ON ISSUE IS STEVE i.e Mr YAMAHA....if you're lurking there Steve...I did send you a private message, which to my dissappointment has not been acknowledged...perhaps you or your minions(should you be on vacation) would care to comment.
I have been using the concept of increasing high end Master EQ settings now on last 5 gigs ...very successfully, so I do believe that this one is now sorted on your behalf...with of course lots of help from other Forum Members.....
So Steve I dont think you should remain silent on the issue.

Respectfully,

LeoD...Long established YAMAHA Customer.

LeoD,
I appreciate your efforts on this, but I haven't really had any problems with my VH using my own e.q. settings, which by the way DO increase the highs quite a bit.
I seldom have time to bring the Tyros into the house and "play" with it. Our moderate weather this time of year allows me to leave it in the van for the next day's job. However, I will try the settings exactly as you say, to back up your research as soon as possible.
Regarding e.q.: The long-time accepted theory of e.q. is that it is best used for cutting frequencies that are not wanted, rather than increasing frequencies, because increasing the highs artificially can add noise to the sound. It has long been acknowledged that it is best to create the "curve" that you want, for example, by cutting the lows more than increasing the highs, or at least a combination of both rather than boosting all highs. Having said this, the Tyros e.q. setup might well be an exception to this theory, but looking at my "curve" it seems to mirror yours, but by decreasing instead of boosting some of the bands.
In any case, if it works for you, don't try to fix it!
DonM

Man, oh Man!! Don, I hope you have a good security system on that Van of yours. And I hope you keep it garaged and not in the driveway overnight.

If it's in the Driveway overnight it might be a good idea to chain a BIG guard dog next to the Van with just enough slack for it to reach around all four corners. And don't feed the dog 24 hours prior to chaining him up.

Another idea may be to rig a sawed off Shotgun with a hair trigger next to where the Tyros sits.... When the guy opens the Case for the Tyros - Whamo!!

Uh... On second thought... That would probably kill the sucker. It would be better to just maim him some so he has time to think about what he almost got away with, all the while writhing in excrutiating pain from his attempted heist of a $3,000 machine. - The Tyros NOT the Van. So you may want to pack the shells with rubber pellets instead..

Just kidding of course... But I do hope that Tyros of yours is safe and secure in your Van when unattended Don.
______________________________________________________

Now, about the Tyros VH, I'm glad that LeoD has solved a majority of his problem by boosting the High EQ settings. My problem was basically solved [not entirely though] by turning off the Effects button on my Tyros. I've noticed as Don Mason mentioned, that the Tyros VH unit does not like external sounds/music/noise, etc. from a PA system or Speakers that feeds into the Mic. That noise/music or sound combined with the users Voice can wreck havoc with the Tyros Vocal Harmony unit when the VH is turned ON. So I think the Tyros' VH is just very finicky and pre-cautions should be taken to minimize that "flakiness" that the Tyros' VH seems to commonly exhibit on a lot of Tyros'.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-21-2004).]

Mike, the van is pretty secure at my house. After all, this isn't California!!
I'm not real certain we even have a key to lock the house. I only know of a couple other guys around here even interested in arrangers. Hank the Lurker wouldn't steal mine!!
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 11-21-2004).]