The Technics KN arrangers recognize jazz chord voicings (rootless type) in full keyboard mode. but don't recognize them in split (left hand) keyboard mode.

The Yamaha arrangers (on the other hand) recognize jazz chord voicings in split keyboard mode, but NOT in full keyboard mode.

Coming from a background as an accoustic jazz piano player, this is really frustrating because I believe jazz chord voicings need to be recognized in BOTH full keyboard (pianist) and split keyboard modes. WHY?

When I perform, I typically play the arranger from the approach of a piano player in a combo. This means that 95% of my songs involve me playing ALL the piano parts. I prefer playing piano in full keyboard mode with both hands utilizing numerous jazz chord voicings. Then when its time to take an instrumental solo, I want to be able to switch to split keyboard mode, continuing to the play jazz chords with the piano sound in the left hand while soloing in the right hand on vibes, jazz guitar or whatever. Unfortunately, because each of the above keyboard manufacterer's does not recognize jazz chords in BOTH full & split keyboard modes, this results in limited playing restrictions on both brands of keyboards.

The best keyboard compromise solution for me (at the moment) has been to set the Yamaha keyboard (PSR2000, Tyros, etc) to split mode and assign both LEFT and RIGHT sides to the same instrument (piano) voice. Now I'm able to at least trigger left hand jazz chord voicings, when both playing the entire keyboard as a piano (full keyboard mode, as well as when assigning the right side (split mode) a soloing instrument while continuing to have the acoustic piano in the left hand, continuing to play the jazz style comping chords. This obviously limits complete true full keyboard piano playing possibilities, but this is better than on the KN7000, where its not possible (at all) to play jazz (rootless) type chords in the left hand (split keyboard mode), while soloing with another instrument sound in the right hand. On the Technics KN boards, the left hand chord recognition is limited to only the basic vanilla chord voicings which sound rather squirrelly (inapropriate) on the more jazzy tunes.

I seriously think that Technics & Yamaha need to GET TOGETHER and share & incorporaate each others jazz chord recognitin strengths to further improve chord recognition on BOTH Technics & Yamaha arrangers.

Does anybody else care about all this? Maybe not, but it sure felt good getting this off my back anyway. At least I hope Yamaha or Technics are listening.

Scott

Scott,
In full kb mode, do you get the recognition you want when you ONLY press the left hand notes? I think the arranger is actually recognizing both hands worth of notes, don't you? That would suggest that it's not REALLY using a rootless approach, rather, a "muti note" approach that narrows down the choices based on both hands.
Just a thought ......

Yes, on the Technics KN7000, in full keyboard mode, I'm getting the chord recognition I want, whether playing it in the left hand, right hand, or combination of right & left hands. These include specific rootless piano comping voicings like:

left hand right hand : Chord
(Eb-A-D) (G-C) : F13

When I play this same voicing on the Yamaha keyboards in full keyboard mode I get: EbM7b5. This may be a theoretically correct chord analysis, but NO piano player I know of (jazz, classical, or otherwise) plays the above chord voicing to represent EbM7b5 in practice. On the other hand, the above voicing is used by blues & jazz players worldwide to represent an F13 chord. I honestly think that Yamaha needs to clean up its chord recognition in the 'full keyboard' mode dept while Technics needs to spruce their chord recognition up in 'split mode'. I think these two manufacters could really learn from EACH other. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 11-18-2002).]

Although I find the 'rootless recognition' discussions interesting - my observations about it's usefulness (as someone who plays mostly jazz oriented piano)are different than Scott's. While I like the fact that some 'traditional' voicings can be 'rootlessly rendered' - having to voice those chords in a particular way just to achieve the desired bass line is seriously limiting.

For instance - Scott - your example of an Eb A D - G C note selection - while commonly used to form an F dominant chord -
I tend to use that voicing for exactly what your keyboard says it is - an Eb major seventh with a 'demented' fifth. - even more commonly I use it to form the color extensions on a C minor - sometimes an A half diminished depending on the inversion of those notes - .

What is infinitely more useful to me is the chord lock function so that I can trigger a chord by whatever voicing is necessary in the left hand - hit my foot switch locking the chord- and then start using my left hand to hit all the coloring I want for that chord - w/o having to worry about recognition. I used that technique on the SD1 and except for the fact that it locked out sustain at the same time - it was perfect for me.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Your point is well taken and brings up the fact that a 'USER defineable' chord recognition table would be the best option to provide greater flexibility to meet the needs of a wide ranger of keyboard players.

In fact, I believe it was Lowrey Organs that introduced a 'USER defineable' chord table in one of its models introduced a year or 2 ago. Perhaps Scott Langholff (Lowrey dealer?) can fill us in on the details of this.

- Scott

Has anyone tried using a MIDI foot pedal to establish the root (I believe the Tyros OS supports this)?