Nice explanation Doc Z...


Diki...

I am glad that you have a grip on all this arranger stuff, cause I sure don't.

Hey Bill ....

Thanks for posting this information. Excellent thread ! Dan O'

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http://www.esnips.com/web/Songs

Hi Diki,
I'm wondering if they're going to do something along the lines of what they did with the drums on the sd1 . A mix of midi & audio.
The "Live Drums" sound to me ( & I'm probably wrong) like a split audio loop.
A similar effect to what I get on the PA800 when I split a drum audio loop & turn it into a groove. Instead of the loop playing back as recorded, I can alter the notes of the midi track that is generated, and change the rhythm of the loop.

The Live Drum's use midi notes, & are supplemented by a normal midi drum track to add additional drum sounds.

Wondering if maybe they're doing something similar with some of the other instruments ie a mix of split audio loop & midi.


Personally I luv the Ketron sounds, & I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done with the Audya, but for me the style editing/creation functions are lacking on my the SD1+ & unless they've included some additional functions like event list editing of a style, I don't think I'd be tempted into upgrading, even if it sounds brilliant.

200 onboard styles, if that's really all there are sort of doesn't sound quite enough..


best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

Stretching is for tempo... I've never said they are likely to have a problem with that. But pitch shifting is another thing altogether. Two, three semitones tops without it getting REALLY weird. Remember, we're after realism, here. No point in it if it comes out even more weird than a MIDI track.

You can't derive an augmented chord from any other (amongst many others), so that's one more basic chord type they are going to have to record. And, if you are trying for better realism than current implementations (Yamaha's Mega voices are pretty good already for guitar parts), no, you can't take a recording of a C strum, and add two more notes of MIDI guitar for a C69. That would be an eight string guitar! And the wrong voicing. Totally unrealistic...!

That's the whole problem, in a nutshell. You want REAL, you have to have a recording of it. Anybody use Steinberg's Virtual Guitar? Notice how FEW chord choices you have? And not that many different styles? And it is STILL over a GB in size. And it's several years old technology.

But, don't worry... sooner or later (later, the way things have been going) the Audya will be released. And then you can have IT to be disappointed with, rather than my predictions.

I'm not saying you add more midi guitar notes to make up a C69 on the guitar track. I'm saying for a C69 let the guitar play a C strum, let the string or pad play a D5 and the bass play C. Want a Cmaj#11? ok, let the guitar again play a C, toss in a Bminor on the piano, then you've got your Cmaj#11. Offcourse this is just a theory on how you could do this in the simplest form, you could offcourse use more chords than just the four basic chords. Virtual Guitarist is a little bit of a different beast. The first version used a bunch of loops, the new one uses a blend of loops, samples and midi. But this thing is a Guitar simulator (Much like RealGuitar) And you have quite a lot more chord choices in the newest version of them both. If you want to check out how stretching algorithms can really improve pitch shifting, check out Melodyne and SampleTank 2. I use Melodyne all the time for fixing pitch problems in voice recordings, but I also use it a lot to generate vocal harmonies, transposing recorded instrument parts it's great! SampleTank has a stretching algorithm that transposes samples really good! Both of these algorithm in both applications transpose the audio without changing the lenght of the sample, just the pitch is adjusted. Normal pitchshifting involves running the sample faster or slower to get the desired pitch result, hence the chipmunk effect. This way however does not give you the chipmunk effect, you have to try it out for yourself.

Check out http://www.nativeinstruments.com for Sampletank
and http://www.celemony.com for Melodyne.

If you could incorporate this type of approach into an arranger, you will get more realism than you ever thought was possible. But again this is just my theory on how Ketron could achieve the result they are claiming to produce, I have no affiliation, nor any information regarding what their solution is all about.

Doc-Z

Nothing is coming. Roland have closed the poject in January.

Tin