I won't to buy a keyboard, and I don't know what to buy. I play piano(ok). My plans are to buy a keyboard to play in group. We are not proffecionals, but we would like to get somewhere there. I don't want to buy something cheap that I would have to soon buy a new one, but I think that maybe I don't need the best one too. Also what brand should I buy, which one is the best.

Do you want piano and electric piano sounds mostly..... or other sounds also, such as strings, choirs, organs, brass, saxes, etc, etc, etc??? Also what price range are you looking in?? Is there a maximum price you're looking to go under???? Also would you like the keyboard to be able to record what you play on a sequencer????? Well..... to start off look at the Yamaha S80/S30... Roland XP 60/80 and XV-88.... Korg Triton.... Alesis QS series and DG8.... I could go on all day probably.... try to answer those questions above and we can help you more.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

----------------------------------I'm not really shure what I want, but I was thinking about 61-77 key keyboard that has different sounds, drumbeat, and so I could record stuff in many layers, and also play live.(maybe both). I would like to record music and sing at church with it(plus to group). I don't even know what price I'm looking at. Right now we have a piano, and two guitars, and we sing in church, but we're thinking to buy keyboard, electric and bass guitars, and everything else.(but I don't know how it will go, it's kindof tuff(need money and know how to play it(its kindof different) Is there a cheap store. I looked over internet and found that if I buy keyboard in Europe it would be cheaper. I looked over keyboards and i liked a triton, but it is kind of expencive.maybe if it is a good keyboard I could spend more than 2. (i was planning for less than two). Also i think if I need a buildin speakers, if I would be using keyboard at home, or somewere else. Whats your suggestion. WHy does Korg trition costs more than other keyboards you listed. What exactrly is the stuff that is better in it. And what should I consider when buying a keyboard. I'm kind of afraid to buy lots of things that I will not use, but I also want a keyboard where I could write good songs. what do you think about new KOrg pe-80, i don't know,just asking. Is there A site where I could compare features of different keyboards. Thank you for help. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Okay.... scratch off the Yamaha's, the Roland XV-88, and the Alesis's from your list....... Ok, now add the Yamaha PSR 540,640,740 and 8000, and 9000...... also add the Ensoniq ZR-76, Roland G-1000 (maybe, I don't know much about this one) and maybe the Korg Trinity (A weaker version of the Triton, I think) and N264/364 (Korg's synths before the Triton/Trinity) Here's why.... the ones I had you get rid of have no way to record songs without an external sequencer and no drum accompaniment built in..... the ones I had you add have sequencers on board (I think they all do anyhow) and drum accompaniment on most of them. Ok now you should be looking at something like this: Roland XP 60 and 80, and Roland G-1000; Yamaha PSR series (above 340 at least); Korg N series and Triton/Trinity; and the Ensoniq ZR-76. Okay.

Now heres what all this stuff does.... you said you wanted drum accompaniment, the ones I listed that would do that (without programming) are the PSR's, the ZR-76 and the G-1000. The ZR-76 has a drum machine onboard..... this would give you some good drum tracks, the other ones have "styles" these include drum parts, piano parts, rhythm guitar, etc. I believe you can normally mute some parts to get just the drums. (not sure) The other ones (XP's and Korg's) you would have to program in some drum tracks via the internal sequencer or put some drum traks on disks as midi files and play those. I don't think these have onboard drum accompaniment.

As for "recording stuff" all the ones I listed have sequencers of some sort.... this would let you either play what you wanted to record in real time, program it in step time (step by step), or use a software midi sequencer on a PC to program the recording.. save it to a disk and most of those keyboards will play that. I've heard that the Ensoniq ZR-76 has a good sequencer... the Triton is good.... the Roland XP's are good.... this isn't to say that the other's aren't any good, just not AS good. The Roland G-1000 is probably good too.

As for sounds.... for acoustic pianos, the ZR-76 is supposed to be very good, the XP's are good and the others are probably just a step below that. (a small step), for electric pianos, I would guess the ZR-76 is also good here, all the others will probably be very good too. Really all the ones I listed should have good sounds, the only ones that might be a bit lower quality would be the lower PSR's and maybe the Korg N series.

Having onboard speakers would make transporting stuff to and from the church a lot easier, but most of these keyboards do not have onboard speakers. Also onboard speakers would probably be a little harder to get the sound loud enough to hear well in a church. You would probably want to hook up the keyboard to an external amp anyway. There are some fairly good amps out there that don't cost much..... Roland KC-100 and 300 are fairly good, and are like $200-350. I'm sure there are others too. The only keyboards I have listed that have onboard's are the Yamaha PSR's.

The reason why the Triton is so much more expensive is really quite understandable..... first of all it has a sampler, this allows you to record any sound you want (Choir singing, violin, saxophone, etc.) and play it with the keyboard... cool huh?? Also it has like 6 outputs and five pedal inputs (compared to about 4 outs and 4 pedals for most others) I believe it also has an effects processor for an external mic or guitar.... plug in a mic and add echo, etc. None of the other keyboards I listed have these things... I don't think so anyhow.


Things to consider when buying a keyboard...... polyphony (number of notes that can sound at once) divide by how many tones are playing to get what you actually have. 64 should be sufficient. Weighted or un-weighted keys (like a piano or like a synth??) pedal inputs (how many does it have, how many do you need), how the thing sounds to you (do you like it), how the thing feels (do you like playing it) etc. etc.

My recommendation...... I guess Ensoniq ZR-76 or Roland G-1000.... These would be easier to use as you wouldn't have to program everything in first....

The prices on everything I listed is as follows: Ensoniq ZR-76 - $1800; Yamaha PSR 540,640,740,8000,9000 - $500, $900, $1300??, $2400???, and $2800; Roland XP 60,80 - $1400,$1600, G-1000 - $1200; Korg N264,364 - $1100 each, Trinity,Triton - $1700, $2200?? All these prices are off www.zzounds.com this is also a good place to compare them.

Sorry I don't know anything about the new Korg.... you might find it at that site I put down..... any ideas yet???

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hey SW.... Go to the General Arranger Keyboard forum at this site and either go to the topic called something like "Korg PA-80 news" or just post a new thread you could get another opinion and maybe some more info on various keyboards..... good luck and God bless.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Triton 61 key is now being sold for 1900$.


"WHy does Korg trition costs more than other keyboards you listed. What exactrly is the stuff that is better in it. "


The Triton offers many geatures other keyboards dont offer, plus it's interface and screen is light years ahead of anything else. It also dominates with the largest sequencer, a full sampler, expansion options, and controller options.

IT actually has a large TOUCHSCREEN interface, and sTILL has 11 real time knobs along with a joystick, ribbon controller, and two assignable buttons.

For ease of sequecer use and laying down sequences lickety split, there is no comparison.

Is it hard to program drums? Would you prefer to have a keyboard with programed drums on you would like to program it yourself. Also is could I download programed drums from internet or something.

WHere did you find Triton for that price?

You were probably aiming that question at Arvon.... but I'll answer anyway. I would prefer to have a keyboard that has preset drum patterns and the ability to program your own, like an arranger keyboard or the Ensoniq ZR-76..... That's just because I have no clue how to program a drum line as of right now. I would probably never get a decent sounding accompaniment going..... if you have experience with drums it shouldn't be any harder than recording anything else. I am almost 100% sure that you can download drum parts online.... depending on what keyboard you use of course. Then again I could be very wrong. Another reason for wanting to have preset drum patterns is just so I don't have to worry if suddenly I want to play a song and I don't have a drum pattern programmed in that matches it..... If you are using this in church chances are your music leader will probably pull some song out of nowhere sooner or later and want you to play it...... this is where the preset drum accompaniment comes in very handy. You may want to think about getting a good synth (like the Triton or comparable synth) and then spending about $200-300 to get a drum machine..... I'm planning to get an Alesis SR-16 soon, it basically requires no programming whatsoever and can be controlled entirely by footpedals. Just some thoughts.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Springwood-


Yeah, you can download drum kit samples online, then put them in your Triton. You can also download Triton PCg's files that you can permanently save in your Triton.

You don't need a drum machine if you have the Triton. It's got a full sampler built in, along with GREAT preset drum sounds.


Guitar center will sell you a Triton 61 key for 1900$.

I understand where you're coming from Arvon..... but I still think that having good drum sounds in a preset midi track is a lot less flexible and a lot less usable in a live situation (like playing in a church, where most songs/choruses/verses will be repeated any number of times the music guy wants to) Now I know that you can do some of this with midi by programming in phrases and then mapping those phrases to certain keys.... but that is a whole lot more work than just selecting a pattern on a drum machine and hitting play. I wasn't telling you to buy a drum machine for the sounds... when I get mine I'll probably use the sounds on my XV-88 instead.... I was saying for the drum patterns themselves a drum machine is better than a midi sequence... IMHO. Hope I don't seem like I'm just arguing with you Arvon.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Can you tell me more about drum samples, programing drums, and drum machines. WHich one you prefer, avron45? you said that I can download drum patterns from internet. How do I program it myself, is it hard. Do I have to write bass, and everything else myself.
My friend said he's going to buy some new Technics keyboard, and that he don't want to get Korgs because of programing(he said that it is too much work to write bass and everything else). Maybe it worth buying a keyboard that you can program, and then get some programed drums, and accompaniment.(Could I copy that stuff from other keyboard, maybe his)? I really appresiate your help, guys.

Well... I can't answer for Arvon but...... yes you have to program everything in (Bass,Drums,etc.), or download it from the internet. Programming it in can be hard, but it can also be quite easy... it all depends on whether or not you know what you want it to sound like and if you know how to get there. For example: suppose you wanted to program in a Soft Rock beat for one of your songs.... you would probably use step-by-step recording to program it in... this normally starts off with you telling the keyboard what to play and then telling it how long to play it (I'm almost sure about that anyway) then you proceed to the next "step" Example: you tell the keyboard to play a bass drum and a hi-hat cymbal on beat one, then you go to beat two and tell it to play just the hi-hat, beat three has the hi-hat and a snare drum, and beat four just has the hi-hat... then you can probably tell the keyboard to loop this thing over and over again, then eventually you would add fill-ins and variations for choruses and other stuff. If you didn't know what a basic drum pattern is like though, you would end up with something that sounds like a new drummer just banging around. That's just my understanding though, I could be totally wrong, the only keyboard I've ever programmed stuff in on is a fairly cheap thing that is probably a whole lot weaker than the Triton's sequencer.

Now on the other hand with an arranger keyboard (such as the Roland G-1000, EM-2000 and most likely the Technics keyboard your friend is getting), you don't have to program hardly anything in..... Arranger's use "styles" which are preprogrammed drum, bass, rhythm guitar, etc. accompaniment parts. Most of the time you tell it what chord progression to follow and then start it up and trigger fill-ins, variations, endings, etc. by footpedals or buttons on the keyboard. This allows you to find the style of a song you want to do (Rock, Swing, Soft Rock, etc.) in the style bank of the arranger keyboard and then just hit start and the bass, drums and other parts will automatically follow the chords you play (I think) You can still program in things like on other keyboards, but you also have the flexibility of live performance. For more info on arranger keyboards and to find out if you can load the styles from your friends keyboard into whatever you decide to get, go to the "General Arranger Keyboard Forum" on this site and post there. Hope this helps you.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

\\Can you tell me more about drum samples, programing drums, and drum machines. WHich one you prefer, avron45? you said that I can download drum patterns from internet. How do I program it myself, is it hard.\\


The Triton comes with 1,024 built in sounds. Many sounds you need will be right there with the push of a button.

Programming can be fairly hard, but not a big deal.

Besides, if you want to learn programming, it's good to have a real synth, right?

\\ Do I have to write bass, and everything else myself. \\


No. the Triton has many bass patches standard. You can edit them any way you like.

\\My friend said he's going to buy some new Technics keyboard, and that he don't want to get Korgs because of programing(he said that it is too much work to write bass and everything else). \\

No. You are provided with plenty of bass sounds on the Triton.

\\Maybe it worth buying a keyboard that you can program,\\

Yes.


\\ and then get some programed drums, and accompaniment.(Could I copy that stuff from other keyboard, maybe his)\\


You cant copy it from other keyboard except Tritons. Their called PCG files. BUT the Triton ALSO has a full sampelr, which lets you record any sound you want to into the Triton.

No offense meant Arvon, but I don't think SW is talking about the patches (sounds) themselves..... I think he's talking about the patterns (for example a bass line in a song) that you can play and program on the synth. It is my understanding that the Triton has a sequencer, but no preset drum accompaniment or bass lines, rhythm guitar patterns, etc. Not the sounds themselves but the patterns that use them. Hope I'm making sense here. I think he would do better getting something like an arranger keyboard with patterns and styles, or if he does get the Triton to get either a drum machine or something like the Boss JS5. Am I right Springwood.... are you looking to have preset drum patterns, bass lines, etc. Or are you just looking to have good sounds and program everything in the sequencer????

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I don't really know what I want. Are arangement keyboards progrmable. What do you think about technics kn6000? The accompaniment with guitar, rythms, and bass is cool, but I feel that it is like not anough sound. feels like I want' to add more of my stuff.

Hey Springwood..... I hope I'm not discouraging you any, you said earlier that y'all have two guitars and a piano, right. Well then, with the two guitars you probably wouldn't need the guitar parts of the arranger keyboard styles or the piano parts for that matter..... that pretty much leaves bass and drums. Programming in a bass line to a sequencer shouldn't be that hard..... especially if you can get one of your guitarists to help you some (most guitar players know a little bit about bass) The drum part might be a little harder, but like I said.... you could always get a drum machine for the drum parts. I am looking to get an Alesis SR-16 drum machine very soon.... It has 50 preprogrammed drum accompaniments with two variations on each basic rhythm and the ability to trigger drum fill-ins by footpedal. Push the pedal and it plays a fill-in and changes from variant A to B or vice-versa. You can also program in your own drum patterns like on a sequencer. I'm pretty sure most arranger keyboards have sequencers also.... and you can program in your own "styles" too. Sorry, I don't know much about the Technics keyboard you mentioned..... Post in the arranger forum and you're sure to get info on it though.

Now... if you feel you could program in the bass part and other instrument parts you wanted into a sequencer, you could always get a good-sounding synth with just a sequencer and no "styles" and then get a drum machine for the drum parts. A couple good synths would be, of course, the Triton; also the Roland XP 60 and XP 80 ($1100 and $1400 I think) Then get something like the Alesis SR-16 I mentioned earlier (this runs $200 new and about $100-150 used) If you go with one of the Roland's (or the Triton for that matter) you get access to a wide range of expansion boards that cover almost every musical genre there is. The Roland expansion board library currently has around 20 different boards ranging from just pianos and keyboards to ethnic instruments.... can't say I know to much about the Triton's expansion boards.... I know there's not quite as many of them, but they have the MOSS expansion board which is supposed to be one of the best boards out there and about 10 other boards.

A little extra something to consider..... The Roland XP's have RPS (Realtime Phrase Sequencing) which lets you program in a midi file pattern on the sequencer for many different parts of a song (intro, verse, chorus, bridge, etc.) and then "map" these to different keys on the keyboard (like use the lowest 5 black keys or something) and then while playing the keyboard you can trigger the synth to play the sequenced accompaniment for whatever part you need. It's not quite as versatile as an arranger keyboard, but it would work. I don't know if Triton has something like this.... but I'm sure Arvon could answer that.

One last thing, what did you mean by "feels like I want to add more of my stuff"??????? Were you talking about sounds or programmed parts to songs or what???

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.