BTW, I don't think arranger players HAVE got a bad rep from using an arranger...

The bad rep comes from a lot of them being BAD players! See chas's thread for more on this.

But Diki in reality you Are controlling & playing everything when using and arranger KB, that's the fun of it. I look at it this way....either you play a solo instrument of any kind or your letting the machine do its work controlled by you & everyone knows that especially the audience. That in turn brings in to DJ level mentality everyone is thinking.

Diki,
I for one will be very interested in how you go with this.
I had never heard of this until this thread, but it looks like a very interesting and useful bit of gear.
Cheers
Dennis

John, the problem is that there are a lot of advanced keyboard techniques that involve using BOTH hands. When your LH is mandatorily committed to HAVING to input the chords ALL the time, there go those techniques out the window.

Sure, you say, if you want to use them, use an SMF. But there goes your interactivity, out the window. What's a boy to do?

I doubt you ever tried the old Roland Chord Sequencer, but it provided the best combination of the two systems (ARR and SMF). Seamless changeover from one form to the other. You played with the arranger, when you got to a section you wanted to solo over, you'd hit the Record button, it would record JUST the chords, hit play and it temporarily took over your chords, so you could solo two handed, play another instrument, go to the bathroom, whatever!

Hit Stop on the CS, and you were back seamlessly in normal ARR play. No-one is ever the wiser (do you honestly think that many of your audience can tell the difference between you playing in ARR mode and SMF, anyway, especially now most SMF players have Markers for jumping to different sections seamlessly?).

Now for whatever boneheaded reason, Roland stopped using this revolutionary feature (from a long list of great features they dropped!), so there has been no way, especially on a Roland, which can't sync ARR and SMF, to use these techniques. This looper, if it works as advertised, could bring back at least part of what made the CS so good, and add a few more capabilities that the old CS never could.

But unless you ever tried the old CS, John, I respectfully suggest you don't understand what it could do for you. I LOVE arranger play. I love it's interactivity, re-harmonizing and restructuring on the fly. I HATE having to play the chords for a vamp or repeated section when I want to solo two handed, if I've already played them once.

Chord Sequencer, or looper, I don't care... It's the best of BOTH worlds

I understand what your saying about the CS Diki....but my concerns are these. The looper means carrying & hooking up more gear, more wires etc etc is that worth the few songs you would use it for? People that dont feel the need to play with both hands versus Left chords/Rt comp/solos etc, have no need for a Cs or even miss it I would think. Not everyone plays an arranger the same at all. Why do you think Roland eliminated the CS never to return it to their models since then there must be a reason? Maybe it wasnt as popular as you thought?


or maybe you can do things like this with the looper & arranger ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQYjmSvFKqU&feature=related


[This message has been edited by John DiLeo (edited 04-18-2008).]

Absolutely, John. If you don't use these techniques much, why WOULD you need this..?

But for all of those with well developed piano soloing styles (solos aren't necessarily just ONE note at a time, or confined to the upper section of the piano - watch a GOOD pianist sometime, and see if he dips into your LH area), or refined bender techniques, or two handed syncopated funky techniques, or those that like to play VERY outside chords over steady rhythm section play (montuño, anyone?), or a myriad of other, legitimate non-arranger keyboard techniques, you MIGHT need this to perform, or be FORCED to use SMFs.

If you are a simple LH chord RH solo player, and especially if you learned on arrangers, and your entire ability is based around this style, of course, this is of no use whatsoever. But there ARE players that do have a different approach and ability, and any tool that allows them to express themselves with these methods is OK in my book!

Well Diki good luck in your search & tryout with the looper. Please give us your thoughts after you've get your hands wet using one.

Even if used for just one song in the show, it's worth it!!

"Seriously - those loopers are so much fun, and so much better than the chord sequencer. You overdub, and overdub till you have the whole band with you ! (LIVE!)"


I think the "chord sequencer" is a much better concept for the keyboardist..it also allowed for changing of styles..try that with a looping device mentioned..or changing key and tempo easily..
Want to overdub..use the on board sequencer..

Give me back Diki's chord sequencer..

Amen, Fran.

But I've basically given up. This thread alone explains just how few people have the slightest clue as to it's incredible power. I agree, there are considerable advantages to the Roland CS (it just remembers the chords, you can STILL change VAR, fill and even styles while it runs), but the looper also has some cool advantages...

You can consider that, with THREE loops, you can run three different sections of the song and switch between them. You can overdub additional stuff to the loop (can't do that on the CS), and you can add real audio to the loop.

Exciting stuff...