Its not really a yamaha question but more a generall question related to all keyboards that can use styles translated by EMC from yamaha.

Currently i am using a yamaha Tyros and i am thinking about upgrading... preferably i want to use Vst instruments in a life setting, but most of all i want atleast 76 keys, So if the Tyros 3 does not have 76 keys, its a no go for me, And even if it has 76 keys i highly doubt that i will buy a T3 if they don't support Vst's (Just fallen inlove with vst power in my home studio)

So i was wondering how my current styles would convert to Mediastation or Wersi using the EMC style converter. I have tried to convert some Roland styles to Yamaha in the past using a previous build of EMC and i was not to delighted with the results.
Now i understand that both Mediastation and wersi OAS can have a soundset set-up for Yamaha/Tyros styles so they sound good...

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Hi Bachus

Don't ever expect converted styles to sound as good as at the instrument they were created for.
Even to get acceptable results often requires at lot of tweaking.

Regards
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Hi Bachus
The Wersi OAA can play all Yamaha styles without conversion, (No external software required) and in most instances sound better on the Wersi due to the sound system. (The Yamaha sound system tends to compress and round off the sounds)
EMC Styleworks is fully integrated (You would not know if it was not mentioned in the manual) into the OAS system (It just requires activating) which means other manufactures styles can also be converted. (Due to the integration, the conversions are far superior to the software alone) In addition the OAA can display and use all the variations/ fills etc that are available on any other instrument. (These are automatically made available when the converted style is selected)
Hope this helps

Bill

So, are you trying to tell me that Yamaha and roland styles sound just as good on the Wersi as on the orriginall instrumenets..and that i can load them natively?

If thats true...then that certainly is more then anyone ever could expect...

Thanks Bill fro your reply

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 04-18-2008).]

Bill this is fascinating news on the Wersi conversions. I would love to hear some short demos of the popular Yamaha styles played thru the Wersi for example. Movie Swing, Rock Cha Cha, Merengue, Classic Big Band, 6/8 slow Rock, 70's Disco, Big Band Shuffle, etc.

I would LOVE to hear head to heads of the same style on Yamaha and Wersi. But NOT Wersi's choice (I've heard a few, and they don't seem to be very Mega-using ones).

Get a T2 owner to pick the BEST three styles that show off the Mega and SA technology, and then play those on a Wersi. No tweaking. No cheating... Straight off the outputs recording. BOTH versions. I dare you

Sorry, Bill, but the Mega stuff is proprietary... How does Wersi deal with that? That claim of Yamaha styles sounding better on a Wersi strikes me as awfully arrogant... Or maybe just biased

Only Yamaha styles can be played directly.
The rest are converted, however because Wersi has full control of the conversion process, you get a more superior conversion compared to the software on a computer. (It is however still a conversion, just a better conversion them normal)
Diki
Are you now saying that overnight all Yamaha boards now have a full live sound and have dropped the compressed CD quality sound, so that they now sound as live as Roland, Korg, Ketron, Wersi etc, if so, then yes, the Wersi voices will not be any better then on a Yamaha, but somehow I don’t think Yamaha has changed their sound system overnight.
Mega voices: Wersi have their own equivalents, which operate identically to the Yamaha Mega voices, and can also be edited.
SA voices cannot be used in styles on a Yamaha; however there are as good and better voices available via VSTs, and all these can be used in any of the styles on a Wersi.
Hope this clears a few things up
BTW do a search on SZ and you will find plenty of sound demos and videos of Yamaha styles played on a Wersi. (Also do a web search)
Regards

Bill

I actually found the post where you and ianmcnll where discussing the soundquallity of Yammie styles vs the Wersi variation of that style...
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/016843.html


And i have to agree that the Wersi sounds more live where the Yammies sound more CD like.... some might like yammie sound better then hte Wersi sound, But i am sure that its possible to make the Wersi sound a little more CD quallity too by using some FX..

Overall i am impressed by the Wersi "conversion" quallity

Hi ,
Obviously Yamaha styles are the easiest format to be able to be cloned.
One Man Band & Livestyler software are living proof of that. For $50 USD & a pc you basically have the equivalent of a psr keyboard. Where they basically fall down is that they don't have a soundsource that plays back the styles faithfully, especially the mega voices. Most people don't want to spend time tweaking styles.

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Bill, are you saying that the wersi actually plays back the various types of sounds triggered via different velocities. I'm not referring to strum noises or fret noises
(my PA800 can reproduce those also), I'm referring to sounds on the nylon guitar voice like "open soft" at a velocity of between 1 to 20, "open medium" at a velocity of between 21 to 40, a hammer between 91 to 105 etc etc
Truly remarkable if they've managed to do that.
Just wondering why though , a wersi conversion in your opinion, would be superior to an emc pc conversion ? Same company writes the software I assume?

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Personally I've found that when converting it's not only the quality of the sound that determines the outcome. If EMC doesn't convert the notes correctly it wouldn't matter what the soundsource is, it still won't sound right.
I personally agree with Jorgen,

Quote:
Don't ever expect converted styles to sound as good as at the instrument they were created for.

One option I'm looking at in the future is,
my PA800 as controller , midied to a laptop for vst's.
Pa800 style parts, vst soundsource for melody voices.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by abacus:
[B]Only Yamaha styles can be played directly.
The rest are converted, however because Wersi has full control of the conversion process, you get a more superior conversion compared to the software on a computer. (It is however still a conversion, just a better conversion them normal)

Bill, are you saying that the wersi actually plays back the various types of sounds triggered via different velocities. I'm not referring to strum noises or fret noises
(my PA800 can reproduce those also), I'm referring to sounds on the nylon guitar voice like "open soft" at a velocity of between 1 to 20, "open medium" at a velocity of between 21 to 40, a hammer between 91 to 105 etc
Truly remarkable if they've managed to do that.

Yes

Just wondering why though, a wersi conversion in your opinion would be superior to an emc pc conversion? Same company writes the software I assume?

The manufactures have a more in depth understanding of their sound system, and so can modify and manipulate the conversion much more accurately. Also with the regular updates to the instrument, there is no way that an external software program could keep up.
Additionally I don’t think the current Styleworks (XT) supports the Wersi OAA format, whereas the program inside the Wersi does.
Regards

Bill

Well, just point me off to a few and I'll get back to you.

No doubt the Wersi can sound more live and full than a Yamaha... hard NOT to, in all honesty.

It's the guitars and basses that I haven't yet heard better, at least in style mode. Are there any demos that head to head some of the unplugged styles, the picking patterns and strumming stuff?

I'd like to hear it a bit more naked...

Hi Bill,
thats' great. ( the guitar velocities etc)

As for EMC XT, it'll be interesting to see if one day it will even do what it's supposed to ie read the PA800 files.

best wishes
Rikki

Here are MP3's of some MEGA VOICE styles from my S900...at 192 kbps.

Just played over one chord...all four variations...long intros and endings.

http://www.4shared.com/file/35852669/28fc0c37/Flamenco.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/35852686/26c03c28/GuitarSerenade.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/35852718/1178c051/Unplugged1.html

Ian

Those names are the ACTUAL names of those styles, Ian?

Maybes we can get a Wersi owner to post untweaked files of the same styles. Perhaps we can get a REAL head to head...

Cage grudge match... Two arrangers enter. One arranger leaves...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 04-20-2008).]

Don’t have the OAA so cannot provide direct comparisons, (Hopefully other owners on the site will be able to provide them) however here is a link to some styles (Some of which I believe are Yamaha) http://wersiworld.com/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=61 (How the styles were recorded I have no information on, (Including Revision number) however additional sounds and drums were added in later revisions, as well as a reworking of some of the existing sounds) and if you do a search on the web you should find more.
Regards

Bill

Ye, Diki, those are the style names.

Not too long ago, someone wanted to post a comparison...I thought it was Bill (abacus), and both versions (Wersi and Yamaha) were posted in the thread...in fact, I put up the same three styles.

I just can't remember the thread topic.

Ian

Hi Ian
Here is the thread you mentioned http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/016843.html

Regards

Bill

Great stuff, Bill...as they say here on Cape Breton Island, "You're some smart"!

Thank you for finding the thread.

Ian the Grateful

Yeah, thanks... Don't know why I didn't read this one and comment back then!

In all fairness, only the Flamenco got close, IMO, Bill. No doubt, all the other elements of the style were superior on the Wersi, handclaps were delicious, etc., But there were some subtle things in the guitar part that the Yamaha was still superior, but overall, this one WAS a good conversion (oops! sorry, shouldn't use the 'C' word ).

But the other two... Sorry. Close, but no cigar.

But once again, I guess the fact that Wersi spent so much time (and presumable a LOT of money to license the technology from Yamaha) to make the Wersi Yamaha compatible just proves the point...

The CONTENT, not the arranger, is what most players consider the most important factor in an arranger. The best sounds in the world, without styles that make the best possible use of them are of little use... This is where the boutique arranger makers either don't have the budget, or just don't get the importance of this aspect of the arranger market. An inferior arranger with superior styles will win the game every time...

Diki, does that last comment mean that you still think that Wersi is lacking in the style department?

Their homebuild styles also sound sensationall...

I got a chance this weekend to hear and play them (both tyros 2 and Wersi Abacus) last satturday on the same PA... And while the Tyros sounds awesoem, the Wersi was in a league of its own... but then its about 3 times as expensive as a Tyros without even having all options that i want...

Honestly, I think that OF COURSE, the Wersi's can easily beat the sound, in general, of a $1600 arranger...

EXCEPT those pesky Mega voiced guitars... Still got to give the nod to the Yamaha's rhythm guitar sound over just about anything I've heard. While a little on the thin side when heard naked, compared to the Wersi, this makes them sit in most mixes just about perfect, no bass to have to shelf off. Wersi, if that's an unprocessed sound (no EQ added), it's a bit tubby without work (presumably the goal of a built in translator is to sound right with NO work?! )

There is just such a wealth of subtle noises and performance tricks, that don't draw as much attention to themselves than the Wersi, and end up being more convincing. At least to MY ears. Everybody hears things differently, but if you concentrate on the guitars alone, other than that flamenco piece, I just got to say IMO only.... I prefer the Yamaha's.

The REST of the style? No doubt. That triple scale price hike certainly buys you SOMETHING, no arguments at all..!

Just makes me wondering how these other keyboards handle yamaha styles incorporating the mega voices... (I don't think Cool, sweet and live voicess will be such a huge problem)