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#232736 - 04/27/08 07:29 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
John DiLeo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 245
Zuki, I am starting to realize what you are saying is very true unfortunately. But I still try to read between the lines and extract what I can in bits & pieces & from doing searches on posts from years gone by too. There is a wonderful wealth of information here on the SZ.

Thanks

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#232737 - 04/27/08 08:47 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Give up John - the most qualified pyschiatrist couldn't make sense of the complex personalities here...just read and enjoy


A friend of mine, a psychiatrist was walking down the sidewalk with me one day and another psychiatrist was passing by ,and he turned to my friend and said, "Hello."

My friend said to me, "I wonder what he meant by that."
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#232738 - 04/27/08 03:47 PM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
It’s all about “ego,” isn’t it? I read and observe a lot (even when I’m entertaining) and one recurring thing I noticed is that when someone says something or writes something (here, there….anywhere), even if it’s a good idea someone else will feel they have to offer an opposing view or a “superior“ rebuttal to show that they are much smarter…even if they disagree with their OWN view! I’m not sure why this happens but it’s called “the ego takes charge.”

I do it too and I have to catch myself regularly or I’d be here forever posting my thoughts (I don’t write as well as you guys do so it goes slowly for me).

I got into Science of the Mind many years ago and this is what they teach you. How to run your life, your career, even your wife “more efficiently!” The point being that if you can override that ego, there’ll be room for positive info going in and out of the brain, such as the “exchange of musical ideas.”

Trying not to get too deep or it will close this thread down!

Zuki wrote:

“just read and enjoy.”

John wrote:

“I am starting to realize what you are saying is very true unfortunately. But I still try to read between the lines and extract what I can in bits & pieces & from doing searches on posts from years gone by too. There is a wonderful wealth of information here on the SZ.”

Correctamundo again on both counts…especially: “There is a wonderful wealth of information here on the SZ!” A few days ago that’s the decision I made…”read and enjoy” (as Zuki said) unless I have something to post that I think will genuinely help someone. In the meantime, I’m spraying myself down with “anti-ego repellent!”

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#232739 - 04/28/08 03:17 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6021
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Zuki,
I think that's what makes this site so entertaining haahaa. The mix of personalities.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Give up John - the most qualified pyschiatrist couldn't make sense of the complex personalities here...just read and enjoy
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#232740 - 04/30/08 12:57 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucky2Bhere:
Someone asked “What’s wrong with playing MIDI files? I’m surprised no one responded to that? What I find wrong with them is they strip you of your creativity (if you’re one of the lucky ones who possesses “creativity”). The arranger doesn’t entertain the audience…the player does. The music doesn’t emanate from the keyboard…it comes from inside the player. The MIDI file doesn’t identify an artist…the playing style does!

I’ve been resisting using MIDI files for that very reason (though I can see the day where that will eventually change). What distinguishes each one of us, to the audience/listener, is our musical individuality. I’m trying to retain mine and not fall into the convenience of pre-recorded material. Sure I can give my audience a bigger, fatter sound but I’d rather give them ME and what I consider to be true emotionally charged and improvisational music.

At home, for practice, I often take a song and try and play it 20 different ways: different key, different tempo, style (ex: play any 4/4 as a tango, bossa, swing, even a waltz, etc)....I’m sure you get my drift. I do this to keep my mind active, creative and searching for new ideas. I bring that to my performance and could never do this with a MIDI file.

Which brings me to my second point. I play everything “out of my head.” I’ve memorized everything I do. Hence, I’ll change direction in the middle of a song in accordance to where the arrangement in my mind is taking me. Maybe I’d like to tack on a different ending? Or maybe the folks are still dancing to the current tune? Maybe I want to do a medley of songs? Quite often I’ll do theme’s as I feel it (patriotic..holidays…different countries). MIDI files would limit me severely in that context.

Again, this is MY choice and what works best for me. But I like to consider myself not just a musician but a THINKING musician.

As for arrangers being “intimidating,” they are analogous to computers (which they actually are) and just about anything technological. All electronics (TV remote, garage door opener, dashboard radio, etc) look intimidating until you LEARN them. If you view them as complicated and never open the manual, they will remain that way.

What helps a lot is to learn and understand how computers work. With that knowledge behind you, everything you then encounter you will have a head start on, including...ARRANGERS!

I couldn’t end without saying what particularly irks me. Those arranger artists who leave the thing running while they sing. They don’t bother to play an instrumental “ride” in between, and NEVER concern themselves with fill-ins, breaks, playing “around” the break, “silent” breaks, pitch bending or modulation for instrument realism, changing styles in the middle of a song. In short, many OMB’s I listen to just…….leave it running!

Lucky



Lucky, after I saw this post just now (yeah, I've been away...) I was all set to reply with great vengeance and furious anger etc etc, but I won't for two reasons.

1. Re-read Diki's reply to your post - says it all and says it eloquently.

2. I've just realised that you may have thought I meant only PLAYING the Midi file - i.e. singing Karaoke style over it. I actually play full 2 handed parts with solos and change instruments (if appropriate) and sing as well as I can (which unfortunately ain't too well *heh*) during each song.

I hope that clears things up for everybody.
_________________________
God I hate signatures.

BUT...

www.chi-chi.com.au

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#232741 - 04/30/08 11:15 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally posted by btweengigs:
In country the third chord is usually "5".

At least that's how it is taught in Nashville.

Eddie


are there any minor chords in that nashville thing.
i never heared a country song fron hashville in minor key.


[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 04-30-2008).]

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#232742 - 04/30/08 11:20 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
those that use audio loops, arpegiatos, lipsyncing cheat also.
of coarse Arranger keyboard gives users more apportunity to cheat, especially with the Intro, Ending buttons, preprogrammed 'Styles' 2 finger chord recognition and the whole Auto-Accompaniment thing !

You also can use Arranger-keyboard for fair, non-cheating stuff like:
Producing Songs (from sratch), playing live(without using styles)

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#232743 - 04/30/08 11:23 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
I personally don't use them, but I see nothing wrong with using them if they fit a person's needs.

What about playing along with an MP3?

Is it that much different?


Ian




it doesn't matter what format is the prerecorded material midi, mp3, wave... etc

if it's the backing music music for your playing, it's ok,
but if you're playing with keyboard turned off, and cd-player on, than it's not ok



[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 04-30-2008).]

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#232744 - 04/30/08 11:34 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
hellboy44,

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. What I wrote about MIDI file usage was a blanket statement about whoever "leaves the machine just running." I'm not even sure of what YOU posted about your own musical performance regarding MIDI files. Feel assured my writing had nothing to do with you.

You wrote: "I've been away...) I was all set to reply with great vengeance and furious anger etc etc, but I won't"

Why the defense system bigger than NATO? Is it possible I hit a nerve?

"You wrote: Re-read Diki's reply to your post - says it all and says it eloquently."

Please don't preach to me. I've been entertaining on stage longer than many of you have been playing. I don't believe I got to where I am by not knowing what I'm doing. And I learned a long time ago, to have convictions and state them as I did here.

You wrote: "I've just realised that you may have thought I meant only PLAYING the Midi file - i.e. singing Karaoke style over it. I actually play full 2 handed parts with solos and change instruments (if appropriate) and sing as well as I can (which unfortunately ain't too well *heh*) during each song."

Repeat: I don't even know WHAT you posted, but if you "play full 2 handed parts with solos and change instruments" and "sing as well" then you're doing more than many OMB's do these days. Good for you!

You wrote: "I hope that clears things up for everybody."

I write: "I hope that clears things up for everybody."

P.S. You might want to consider a name change. That's a very agressive moniker!

Lucky

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#232745 - 04/30/08 11:37 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Vadim:
if you're playing with keyboard turned off, and cd-player on, than it's not ok
]


I agree...if a person is playing with the keyboard "off" and/or pretending to play along, then they are a big phony.

Fakes are flakes.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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