Wrong again, the keyboard came before me.
You just can not seem to get anything right can you?


BTW: I did not call Yamaha customers "fools", I was only commenting on the way Yamaha views and treats its customers/market where even you and countless others are in agreement.

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 04-29-2008).]

Wow! My mistake...I thought you were so special, they named the keyboard after you.

Would you say it is comparable to more modern instruments like the Korg PA2XPRO and the Yamaha Tyros2?

Ian

Most of us "in the know" agree that Yamaha does nothing different than the other keyboard manufacturers...they are all in the business to make a profit, and they all do what THEY think is right for the company.

Simple, for the rest of us...why so difficult for you?

Ian

When Yamaha essentially thumbs its nose at a broad segment of its fan base can you not see why it would tick a large portion of them off Ian?? Remember the 76 key poll?? Half wanted 76 keys and you may be surprised by the fact that the other half i.e. those who opted for 61 keys, when presented with a professional 76 key 'option' would go for the 76 "professional" version instead of the 61 even though it may cost a few hundred extra. Not all the 61 key players are grandpas with bad backs you know. And if they have the money to buy a $4,000 61 key arranger i.e. T2, etc., they will also have the money to buy a $4,500 76 key model. And even though you pay extra you also "get extra" PRO features as well.

Many of those who 'gig' with their arrangers would also be inclined to purchase a PRO level arranger as well when you consider the PRO version would most likely have a 'real' Sampler and other PRO features that are especially suited for live use. Unless of course Yamaha chose to skimp on PRO features if ever they were (God FORBID!!!, right? ) to make a 76 key high end arranger again.

Yeah, it simple for us to understand Yamaha's formula all right Ian. Their bottom line is all they care about in my opinion i.e. = making money hand over fist. I have no problem with the money part because like you said businesses are in business to make money. The problem is when a company shuns part of their customer base and/or potential customers and would rather play it safe and count their money instead of meeting the "demand" of a relatively large portion of their customer and non-customer i.e. (potential customers) playing needs i.e. something i.e. (a high end arranger no less ) with more than 61 keys on it.

Best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 04-29-2008).]

Well, obviously not Michael...the rest of us seem to understand, but you are clearly not catching the drift...how much explaining do you need?

We have tried to make it clear, but you're missing the point.

This has been hashed and re-hashed over and over, ad nauseum...to the chagrin of many of us who are much more aware of what's happening than you.

Why not stop wasting our time with this re-fried bowl of beans...we've heard it ALL before.

I know how you'll respond to this post...it will be just another tirade of Yamaha bashing and circular hooey...is that why you post here, Mick?

Is there nothing else in your repetoire that you can drag out and strut for the rest of us?

I'll get the poop scoop ready.

Have a nice day.

Ian

Groundhog Day all over.

Plenty of poop from ALL sides here.

But Ian... if Yamaha DO make an effort to make the bass and drums more up to the rest of the Korg and Roland standards (probably the MAIN request from current T2 users for a feature change), expect to see a LARGE jump in the number of people that disagree with Yamaha's position.

The poll showed that perhaps a majority of those using 76's were not happy with the overall sound of the T2 anyway, so adding a 76 might not change their minds. But if Yamaha grow a pair, and give us an arranger that sounds a bit more live, this may very well change...

BTW, does anyone think that Roland E50's and E60's go down a completely separate line..? Identical machines other than the case and keybed..? Surely someone as sophisticated as Yamaha can figure it out? If only two components change in an assembly line, you don't need two lines. Let us also not for one minute think that Yamaha's lines are working at 100% capacity. It should not bring the line to a grinding halt to add the perhaps 15% extra workflow to the line for the smaller production numbers that a 76 would expect to sell.

There are few PRACTICAL reasons for Yamaha's choice, just philosophical ones. They certainly don't get their market research done by the people that do it for Korg and Roland, Ketron and Wersi! Market research is the art of asking questions in a way that you get the answers you actually WANT...! One would imagine that if Yamaha just poll people that use Yamaha's, OF COURSE they are going to get overwhelming numbers in favor of 61's. That's all they make! Those that would like a 76 have already gone somewhere else...

(Sound of a radio alarm clock going off to 'I got You, Babe')

Groundhog Day AGAIN...?

The Genesys is not in the same class as the PA2x pro. I would only imagine. I have never played the PA2x pro but just based on the times those keyboards were made one would think that the PA2x is in a different class.

Having said that, the Genesys is the closest thing to the PA2x in terms of features.
I don’t want to go in to more discussion on the Genesys because it is OT and because you would probably get it wrong the same way you are on the wrong side of the Yamaha 76 key arranger discussion.

Diki,

If the little thread that I initiated about who gigs with their arranger is any indication...the vast majority on SZ are pros.

Yamaha's target market for the Tyros is "home", although some adroit individuals do take advantage of it for "pro" jobs.

Things will not change until Yamaha feels it is in their best interest.

Trying to poke holes in their agenda ain't going to change anything...ONLY if the 76 note "home" arranger market shows some realistic promise, will they make one...so far...according to their market research(and believe me, they are thorough)the market can't be showing much hope.

Perhaps if the Korg arranger shows decent activity (it's still too new to tell) then maybe things will change.

The T3 will be whatever it is...it's not going to change very much at this point...so we will have to wait and see just how well it is received in it's intended market.

Ian

Gang... OK, I think one other LARGE issue is: Yamaha PRO division is telling Arranger division (comes from non-PRO division) NO WAY YOU GET anything to blow away some of our business!

Already the PRO synth customers are asking why does my PRO board not have the same or better sounding SA voices as the T2???
Turf wars my friends!

Think about it, does it makes sense?

If they offer a killer true PRO arranger in 76 or 88, maybe some stage gigging band folks would get it instead of a Motif etc.

They are the same company, but each division has profits goals to make or someone's job (s) go away!

That's my thinking on it.

Maybe the other arranger company's don't have that level of competition amoust themselves? (Roland, Korg) because the PRO guys don't see the threat to their busness area.

Yamaha could with there rsources build a super Tyros T5 that would be 61, or 76, or 88 with ALL PRO features in the arranger end and the synth end....if they wanted to.

Lee

Nah, buddy...I'm right...you can't convince me any differently...but you have convinced me that you are wrong...BUT...I still think you're a nice guy just the same.

Ian