I believe that the Korg option applies to envelope behavior of monophonic sounds, but NOT to completely different samples between staccato and legato, not to intervalic rules.

The Yamaha behavior IS complicated because of velocity AND legato combinations, and intervallic rules as well. That's what makes it so 'human'.

But think for a minute about 'legato'. The very nature of it in acoustic instrument DOES mean it isn't played as hard... You can't put as much force behind a legato line on a wind instrument as you can a staccato blast... and a string that is hammered on, or played legato ISN'T re-picked, and IS quieter than a picked one.

It really DOES mimic natural playing techniques in many instruments. I am looking forward to seeing how far ahead the T3 can push this technology. It truly doesn't have ANY hardware equivalent, yet, IMO...

He-heh! That's right Ian. Now any old "key plonker" can now be instantly transformed into one of Diki's favourite sax players.

My own experience is that most need editing to allow the player to get a decent baseline sound first using just "low" velocity (default settings force use of too-high velocity and the full SA potential is masked IMO).
Then they need to be played with an awareness of the sensitivity required by the technology to bring out the best results.
For people who are used to aiming for full expression it's less of a deal and for those who don't already, the techniques are beneficial with non-SA voices too.

John

Of course, John, didn't you read the brochure?

Sound like "Trane" or the "Hawk" with the press of a key...pure magic!(...and bull poop)

Actually, it is pretty accessible, although it does take some time to be accurate enough in your phrasing to give it maximum realism.

Still...kudos to Yamaha for making it relatively painless to get a great sound.

You are correct about editing...it can give a bit more control, although I'm quite content with the SA voices as they are...I love the SA Sax...it was the main reason I bought the S900.

Ian

I agree with Ian....playing the SA voices is an amazing experience for sure. Once you master how to effectively control them & use them correctly while playing they are hard to compare to anything out there on the market that I have heard so far. Yamaha has certainly done their job well.

There are really great sax players, and there are really terrible ones! The instrument is the same - what changed?

Same with the SA sax...

In the hands of someone that DOES know how to phrase and decorate like a real sax player, you can get closer than you ever have before (you'll never get there completely, but every little helps), but in the hands of someone that doesn't quite grasp how a sax player thinks and breathes, well, the brochure might need a re-write

It IS a start, but I think I've said before, by the time you model ALL the possibilities a sax player can pull out of a horn, it'll end up so complicated to control, you might as well learn to play the real thing!

But at least it does solve (or at least partially) one of the great problems of emulating sax on an arranger... the inability to use the bender as much as you like because your LH is tied up playing chords. Just about any other keyboard sax sound really NEEDS this before it starts so sound realistic, but the SA sax can phrase well enough to get by without it. It still sounds a little stiff, but the falls and decoration stuff you can do can help mask that.

Basically, I rarely ever solo on the sax sound in my Roland if I CAN'T use the bender...

THis all makes me wonder iff all those vst's that promise the same(legato) are just as easy to play as the SA voicess from Yamaha.....

I fiddled something with a sax and a violin on the Roland V-synth last week, but they were far from easy compared to the results the SA voicess yield with much less excersise...

Diki ....


Maybe you can tell the difference but I dont think the average listener in the audience really notices the difference you mention regarding all the technical nuances.
I would say to my ears most of the SA sounds are very close enough to make people enjoy playing & others enjoy listening.
I cant wait, tomorrow my S900 will be here.
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions, tips & help in making me realize that the S900 is truly the keyboard for me at this time.

I don't play a lot of sax solo's, but I more than make up for it with trumpet, trombone and flute. I decided if I have to choose between playing the chord properly and making my horns sound authentic I would go with the latter. IMO, folks will notice a "dead" horn before they notice a wrong arranger bass line. Still I try only to use the pitch bend when I can REMAIN on ONE chord. If I have to deflower the chord, I keep it to probably under a second. Just long enough to put some life into the horn line.

I'm playing a Roland board, and I still, after years playing Roland, can't get used to the "sideways" action. The best axe I ever played was the DX7 where you could hang your hand right on the corner of the keyboard and make both wheels really effective.

Not crazy about the placement of the Ketrons, though I'm still considering buying one for sound quality.

Lucky

On my PSR-S900, I use a Yamaha FC-7 volume pedal for pitch bends when I want that effect in any quantity whilst in arranger mode...I mostly use the wheel at home.

Never liked the Roland bender as it is impossible to leave modulation "on"...you have to keep pressure on the lever...Korg's joy-stick is no better...and like you, I didn't much care for the sideways motion....plus, if your playing a 76 note keyboard, the bender is a loooonnng reach.

Wheels are the way to go...my Mini-Moog had them, as did my DX-7 and Casio CZ-1...you could, as you say, "hang your hand right on the corner of the keyboard and make both wheels really effective".

My old Roland Jupiter 8 had the lever...it was awkward, and I never got used to it...you had to push so hard for modulation, the keyboard would actually move away from you...and the JP-8 wasn't light.

Diki's suggestion of a "chord sequencer" would go a long way in solving many of the issues we have with pitch bending.

The Yamaha SA voices are relatively easy to work...we're not going to fool a real sax player, but it does give the "impression" of a Saxophone.

Ian

Ian,

I do a LOT of pitch bend. Are you saying one can do a useful range of bending with a foot volume pedal? There's a dedicated input for this on the 900?

I've been thinking about that new Ketron Audya but the position of those wheels is making me nervous. Then again, I'm wondering if Ketron also devised an external control for the "bends?"

I think if you're trying to sound like a whole band, you really need to work on each instrument sound and get a general idea of what distinguishes each one. And how to match the left and right keyboard sounds. One of my favorite combo's is French Horn on the right against deep strings on the left.

At one time I had a sound module MIDI'd to the left side of the split point with a swell pedal controlling it. This way I could control the volume separately and bring in the external strings at will. On the module I was using, I split the string sound and detuned them against each other so it would sound fuller. The signal then went out in stereo. Incredible sound!

In the end, and probably after the Audya hits the market, I'll probably go with a 900 myself if I don't buy a Ketron.

Lucky