I always listen for other keyboardist's EQ settings. Most sound very good with no peaks or spikes. Sometime I feel my pianos are too treble-y. Assuming you are using a mixer or amp with 3 or 4 EQ knobs, what settings (1-10 or clock)do you use? If using a graphic EQ, what are your settings? Do you use compression or noise gates, etc.?

------------------
Cass

What keyboard, and what patches are you having this problem with?

I have to confess my G70's GrandX patch sounds about perfect to me with no EQ at all...

Are you EQ'ing the entire arranger at the Master Tools section, or adding treble at the mixer?

Throw us a few more details, Cassp...

I agree I was most impressed with the G70 piano patches. I can't say the same for the e60. They sound thinner and tinnier. I usually don't mess with internal EQ too much 'cuz I really don't have a feel for what I'm doing there. But I'm usually pretty good at the mixer. I would have to say that I am mostly concerned about piano not spiking (wrong word?) or sounding too strong on some hits.

I've been running the Mackie 808S mixer channels pretty flat, with a little mid boost. Master EQ is almost flat with only a little boost on the first and last two slders (9 band).

Run the piano at Medium key touch setting, try the Classic piano patch (I think it's the same samples as the GrandX), make sure there is no MFX enabled (they often put the Enhancer on as default, which overly brightens the sound).

In all fairness, I don't use ANY piano patch in the G70 other than the GrandX (and occasionally a honky-tonk), I don't like them much at all. But one PERFECT piano is all you need, IMO!

Strangely, most at roland-arranger.com complain the the Roland pianos (at least the Classic and Superior) in the E50/60 are too DARK for them, and from what I heard (there's a thread from a while ago where we ran the Purgatory Creek file through those patches), I tend to agree. We discussed ways in the voice programming (adding a bit to the cutoff value seemed to work) to get them back to the G70's sound. It might help.

My take was that many had come from Yamaha and Korg arrangers and keyboards previously, which IMO are WAY to brittle and bright, compared with a REAL piano, and were hooked on that tinny sound.

BTW, you didn't answer the question... Which piano sound ARE you using?

As to the piano 'spiking' on some hits, well, that sounds a LOT more like a touch issue. Do you use High as the touch setting? Try Medium. Do you have 'spiking' issues on other sounds? If not, there's nothing wrong with the keyboard. I presume it is not just one note that is jumping out (otherwise it might be a key contact problem).

Just how good is your playing touch? Record something into the sequencer, and take a look in a graphical sequencer (it's a lot easier than looking down the data list) after you transfer the SMF. Do you notice any unusual jumps? It sometimes helps to analyze your playing this way, to see if certain licks or playing styles make you whack the keyboard harder, and adjust your playing accordingly.

Me, I'd stay off everything other than the Superior, Natural and Classic pianos, just because they don't have the velocity layers that those three do.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful advice, Diki. I am using the CLASSIC piano on pg 3 of the e60 piano pages. I am not the best piano clunkerer around, so most of my 'spiking' is probably my fault. Everything else checks out as you suggest. I guess I just don't care for the upper octaves of most digital keyboards - it gets thin up there. That's one good reason to have a 76/88, otherwise I would find myself pressing the octave down button all night.

I'd suggest maybe sitting down at a real piano (grand if you can) and reacquaint yourself with what it's SUPPOSED to sound like. Perhaps you just have different expectations to the real thing.

Mind you, I tend to think the upper half octave on a 76 is just a hair too loud (but it's not too bright, IMO), compared to miking the average grand (and especially an upright) as the high strings were always furthest away from the mikes... It's something I feel on most sampled pianos I've played (I own Kurzweil, Triton, G70 as my current axes).

Quick question... Does the piano sound overly bright on style Parts to you? Or is it just you? If just you, you MIGHT just be whacking away a bit hard in that top octave or so....

Last resort is to either use a bit of maybe 10k shelf using the per-part EQ (you got that on an E60?), or maybe, if not, on the whole arranger. I sometimes think the whole thing is a bit to treble-y, especially if you are primarily doing early sixties and earlier music (those fifties disks had not much over 10-12kHz, back then!).

See if any of this helps...

Well, enough about me... and my lack of style and technique.

What I really want to know is what kind of EQ settings do members use on their amps and mixers? My concern was that upper octave piano patches tend to get thin and tinny. How do you address that with your EQ settings?

Cass there is no definitive answer to this EQ stuff.....every gig .....every room, every instrument needs EQ adjustments it comes from experience and BY YOUR OWN EARS. Forget the settings & LISTEN & ADJUST. Then go out and listen from the back of the room & adjust some more.

I put the appropriate settings in the Master setup of Ty2 and that's it, but I do play at home so can't contribute to what should normally be done for outside broadcasts
Except I do tend to agree with Donny.

One thing I do which might be of interest though is that as part of extensive editing of the Ty2 piano to make it sound and handle better to my taste, I make it brightness adjustable. In the Tyros voice editor you can assign a voice filter and compensating volume to the mod wheel.
So I can start off with a bright piano, at zero mod. wheel, going to "too mellow" at the mod.full-on end, and somewhere in between is the right balance for the piece being played.

Maybe a similar principle could be useful as a quick way of helping to compensate for different piano brightness needs in various locations?

John

Sorry, Cass, it wasn't intended as a dig at your playing, simply Troubleshooting 101... If the pianos don't sound thin and tinny in the style section, then it's something you are doing. If they DO, then it's a problem with the piano sound (or your sound system)...

Thing is, as I said earlier, just how familiar with what a real piano sounds like in that area? Perhaps you just don't have a realistic idea of what it's supposed to sound like. Because, for the life of me, I hear no problems with the upper end of Roland pianos. They sound pretty much like what a piano sounds like, IMO.

What are you playing through? Does everything else sound thin and treble-y? Run a CD player through the same gear with the same settings. Does it sound full and balanced? Usually, I listen to a good well balanced CD (Fagen's The Nightfly is a good place to start) through any system, and make corrections there first. Otherwise you end up using a whole lot of weird EQ on the instrument to compensate for an unbalanced system sound in the first place...

Asking for EQ settings from other people with different amps and speakers (and arrangers) is kind of futile. Unless they have the same system, you won't get the same results.

I took a look through the E60 manual. I couldn't find anything about the per-Part EQ that I have on the G70, so that option is probably out, but you DO have a stereo EQ in the MFX section. So you have a couple of options to EQ the piano sound without affecting the rest of the arranger (presumably, you only want to tone down the piano, you haven't mentioned anything else too treble-y, yet):

You can assign the MFX to the piano Part, and use the Stereo EQ to roll off a bit of maybe 10kHz. Just experiment a bit there...

Or you could go into the voice edit parameters and lower the Cutoff setting a bit. Both of these will roll off some highs.

Anyway... as I said, I wasn't trying to flame your playing, just trying to track down the problem (which I don't hear on my G70). Try these things out (especially balancing your system in the first place) and see if any of it helps...