I just received a fax with a picture and specs of this new 8key graded hammer action arranger. It is the same electronics as the PA500 but in a piano keybed with a larger speaker system.
"Pro Piano Sound and Pa excitement! For the no-compromise pianist who wants to add an extra dimension- or two- to their performance, we are proud to introduce the Pa588. Sonically identical to the Pa500, the Pa588 adds Korg's best piano sound and feel, an attractive stand, a half damping pedal, and a more robust speaker system."
It also features a "new premium piano sound from our top of the line C-720 Concert piano"
It has 80 voice polyphony, USB, Stereo Outs, Stereo Inputs. 880 sounds/320 styles/4 effects + master EQ.
XDS Dual Sequencer w/step and backing modes.
Convenient SD and MMC format Card Storage.
The price has not yet been set but I would guess that the package of the keyboard, stand and pedal might sell for approx. $2500.00. This is just a guess at this point. The weight of the keyboard and stand is 67.24 lbs. The keyboard is 56.6" x 17" x 6.3".



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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

http://www.gadgetoid.com/2008/03/12/korg-pa588-arranger-piano/

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-20-2008).]

Thank you for posting the picture so quickly!

Couldn't they just make a 61-key arranger? Who needs all those keys?

And 67 lb.

Don't they know all arranger users will snap like twigs lifting anything more than 25 lb. or so ... (Of course, they'll happily use a 60 lb. amp to play it through! )

Just saw it in half, and you could keep TWO PSR users happy at the same time

Iyts not meant for gigging, but for home use, then weight is not a factor.

Pictures and full details have been on the Korg website for ages, and its available summer 2008
Also the full spec has been out far longer as it’s the PA500 with the 61 notes replaced by 88. (Hence the PA588 designation)

Bill

I thought, from Ian's authoritative knowledge, that almost ALL arrangers are meant to be home keyboards, where weight should be no factor at all

Why any 'home' user should need portability is beyond me... and apparently, NO arranger is designed for gigging! (too small a market)

Something just doesn't add up, here

If you play PIANO, but also want more (arranger stuff too) this is great!

No guys, come on... you don't really take it gigging ( I guess you could if you have help)

There are folks that want those 88 graded hammer action keys for sure.

Lee

Your very welcome George...thanx for the heads up!
Awaiting your full review also. Looks like KORG is really filling all the bases.....Maybe the others will follow their lead?

But here is where I think it falls down, compared to a semi-weighted 76...

It is by far the better keyboard to play piano on, and Rhodes too. But after that, that's it. 88 wood is not the best action to play almost every other sound in the arranger on. So for straight ahead pianists with little desire to play any other sound, it's perfect. But for the jack-of-all-trades arranger user, it is too much of a compromise.

As is a 61, IMO, which severely restricts the real two handed piano player (and the inclusion of Piano Mode triggering on most arrangers seems to indicate that the manufacturer kind of expects it to be used this way, at least by SOME of it's users ) from any kind of normality. So what's the answer..? Of course... the 76 semi-weighted. Big enough to play most piano parts on, light enough action to play all the OTHER sounds on, heavy enough to not feel like you are playing on an organ.

The arranger is ALL about compromise. I feel like the baby bear; too small.., too big.., JUST right!

Diki,
Yes... for me for sure the 76 semi-weighted is best. A good compromise for piano and great for all other playing.

But if you play piano a good part of the time... these guys need the 88 notes (not me). They swear by the 88 and won't give it up.
Lee

Exactly...61 for arranger play, and 88 weighted graded hammer action for piano...playing solo piano on a 76 note semi weighted keyboard is like trying to wash your feet with your socks on.

Weighted hammer works for everything except organ sounds...too bad Yamaha couldn't make the P85 piano into an arranger...only 25 lbs even with the speakers...that would be deluxe!

Ian

Got to disagree on this one... Anything that needs a very quick, facile action to imitate well (accordion, flutes, rapid strings, some Minimoog lines, in fact, anything that actually IS triggered from a lightweight keyboard in real life!) is hampered by a wooden 88, at least as much as playing piano on anything other than wooden 88 is hampered.

I personally feel very little compromise on my technique playing piano on the G70 action (the shape and feel go a long way towards making you feel at home), but most things other than piano definitely take a hit from the stiffness of a real 88. Mind you, a LOT of the budget 88's are ANYTHING but realistic in their pianistic touch. They might make excellent compromises, too, but most of them won't make a true pianist feel at home any more than a semi-76...

The Kurzweil PC1SE would also make a great arranger keyboard!

If you were playing often enough on an 88 weighted keyboard your finger strength and technique would be improved to the point of being able to handle using these sounds.(except MAYBE organ, which requires a fast and shallow triggering action).

That's the problem with the 76 semi-weighted...it doesn't build finger strength and technique suffers.

Check out Jordan Rudess on the Kurzweil...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdlRcK3cJ4A&feature=related

Korg Oasys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAp6iilofDc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m91c9PuTdZo&feature=related


This illustrates clearly that weighted hammer obviously doesn't hamper speed.

But a wimpy 76 semi-weighted definitely affects piano technique.

Why lose what took years to develop?

A lightweight 88 note weighted hammer arranger would be less of a compromise all around...but it would have to be truly light...under 30 lbs for sure.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-21-2008).]

Sorry, Ian, but in a perfect world, you are absolutely right

Trouble is, here in Arrangerland, most of us haven't spent our entire musical lives only playing piano. In fact, probably a large majority of us have played very little, if any, piano at all. Under that set of circumstances, once again the 88 wood falls to live up to it's potential for most arranger users.

Yes, the very best of us could probably get a decent performance out of an 88 after quite some considerable practice, but let's face it, again... most of us are not getting any younger The same factors that prevent many from being able to move anything heavier than a flyweight keyboard would prevent the comfortable use of an 88 for any length of time. Carpal tunnel syndrome is the bane of those that play a LOT of piano as they get older, along with rheumatoid arthritis and the like.

So, yes, in a perfect world, an 88 wooden arranger SHOULD be able to be used for all sounds but organ, in the REAL world (you know, the one where you prefer a mushy 61 for just about everything including piano ) it's weight, both in playing and moving, make it impractical for the majority of arranger users.

I have a real piano, and play it most every day. But there is no way in hell I would try to go out and do my schedule on an 88. I find no problem whatsoever controlling my G70's awesome grand piano sound from the 76 semi, and the ease with which I can not only play all the other sounds, including authentic organ smears and the like make it a no-brainer for those that a) play both full piano AND Hammond parts, and b) want to take only ONE keyboard to a gig.

Both the 88 wood and the 61 plastic are incapable of doing BOTH, and both is what I need, every day. No, I am not Jordan Rudess... Neither is anyone else on this forum, from what I've heard I sincerely doubt hardly ANY of us could play an arranger so facilely on a wooden 88. Go to your favorite source for the truth, Yamaha's sales figures, and look up how many 88 wood arrangers are sold, compared to 61 plastic...

Now, if they would only make a plastic 76....

Whatever works for you, my friend...I still want 88 keys.

I've played a lot of CVP instruments over the years, and it is awesome using a weighted 88 note keyboard...but they aren't making it in a portable(under 30 lbs) enough package.

If they could do a TOTL arranger in a platform like the P85 it would get my money right away...I have suggested this many times to Yamaha.

They did try a sort of portable CVP called the PF1000, and I played it, and it was nice, but way way too heavy (68 lbs) for a solo performer.

Carpel tunnel is mostly the result of poor technique...not the fault of the piano...more likely the player's bad habits.

Poor posture, and bad wrist position are the culprits.

But if 76 semi weighted does it for you, all the better...just doesn't do it for me....never will.

I'll wait.

Ian

And wait, and wait, and wait, and.....

In the meantime, I am happily playing piano parts on my G70, with an action that is FAR less of a compromise that the S900 you use every day (back gigging, yet?). I wish I had the time to be able to wait for this mythical lightweight 88 arranger (that mysteriously transforms into an organ keyboard at the touch of a button), but I have a job to do

And, truth be told, you already play some piano parts on that awful S900 action, as limited as it is. So please don't try to convince me you are holding out for the 88! If you played NO piano parts on the S900, I would know you are actually serious and purist about this topic, but once you play anything pianistic on the S900, you have already made a FAR greater compromise than using a 76 semi....

Which ARE, after all, available NOW

I'm not gigging till October, so I have lots of time...who knows what will be out by then...I have a P85 here for piano practise and the S900 for arranger stuff...life is good.

Piano is just another voice to me on the S900...and when played in arranger style, the action is just right...plus the instrument is light and portable (and still sounds awesome)...unlike the G70 which has lost many users due to it's weight and bulk.

If you are willing to lug that thing around, more power to you, my friend...just thinking of dragging that beast around makes me want to hug my S900.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-21-2008).]

Wait till you have to drag your S900 AND an 88 around...

Their combined weights will easily equal my behemoth Add in a two tier stand, two road cases, more setup time, cables, ways for things to go wrong, and the difficulty Yamaha make you go through to integrate the two for anything more than just the basic MIDI connection (you will probably want to drive the S900's arranger section from the 88 in Piano Mode, but then probably play a solo section on the S900 with both hands - best of luck getting the S900 to do that, or other performance tricks) and you have a recipe for frustration.

But I look forward to hearing this monster rig when you finally get it. I hope things speed up in your recovery, and you can get back to doing what I know you love so well

(Been recording anything new, lately? Send me some more, I really enjoyed it... Get better soon, my friend!)

Thanks for the good words, Diki...I appreciate it.

I don't plan on taking the P85 to every gig(when I get started) just the when I need a solo piano set, which isn't very often.

I'd use a separate double X-stand, and plug the piano into the S900's aux in...I wouldn't play them together...

The S900 is better arranger than the G70, in my opinion, of course, as is the G70 a better digital piano/arranger than the Yamaha.

I hope to get both the S900's power, and the action of a P85 in one manageable instrument, but until I do, the S900 will be my primary gigging instrument.

The P85 is for my chops..plus I love to just sit and play a piano that feels like a piano.

You have the luxury of a real piano as well as your G70...not many do, and I'm sure the semi-weighted action would not be good for a real player if that's all they played over any length of time.

So we're both lucky to have pianos at our disposal.

Haven't been doing much recording lately...mostly out doing a lot of walking to get back in shape...still play everyday, but since I'm not gigging, I don't have the same practise agenda...it's more relaxed.

All the best to you,

Ian

Korg just emailed me their latest price list dated June 19, 2008. The Pa588 has a retail price of $3199 and the MAP price is $2599.00. This makes the 588 $1,100.00 more than the 61 light key model Pa500. The additional piano sample and 88 hammer weighted keys and a more powerfull internal speaker system accounts for the additional price. I think it will do well in my store because there is nothing from the other manufactures except for clavinova and KR series Rolands that can do what this will do. It's still alot more than the $799.00 Yamaha YPG635, but the Yamaha has only presets styles with no editing at all and the Korg can manipulate anything and everything.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Ian.. One of the things I absolutely ADORE on the G70 is how well the PianoStyle Mode works. It has a pretty uncanny ability to track the changes and inversions around on pretty standard piano playing, so you can forget about triggering the arranger, and just concentrate on being pianistic, and the rhythm section follows you around like a champ. Especially if you just stick to Bass and Drums, you are in jazz trio heaven!

I am SURE the S900 has a similar mode, and I am pretty sure that if you hooked the P85 and the S900 together, and somehow managed to get the P85 to input to the NTA section of the S900, you could do the same thing. Trust me, it is utterly addictive once you get the hang of it

Hmmm,

George I think 1.100 USD is awfully lot's of money for keybed upgrade, piano sample and funny looking speakers, especially when You consider that entire Pa500 arranger (with lots of samples other then piano, styles, etc.) cost 1.500 USD. But sure is attractive for anyone who wants powerful arranger and 88 keys.

Yamaha have something similar from couple months ago, MM8 88-keys version of MM6 the mixture of arranger and synth. Not as powerful as Pa588 in the arranger department, but surely much more affordable (it costs almost the same as the price difference between pa588 and Pa500).

the Yamaha MM8 isn't even in the same league as the Pa588. No style editing, only hip-hop styles, 32 note polyphony, a very simple sequencer with no editing, etc. etc.
Also, the korg does include the stand and pedal included in the price.
I would have liked to see the Pa588 come in closer to $1999, but I still think it will do well up against the home clavinova products and the Roland KR products. Generalmusic used to sell the SK88 which was in this price range, even higher for a while and I did quite well with these.
I sell to a lot of families that want or need certain features their piano teachers demand yet they want the fun of a contemporary karaoke style workstation with lyrics displayed of midifiles and also desire great sounds and styles to play. Up till now, the Yamaha YPG625 has been a very good seller, but some would like more than it produces and the Korg might just fit the bill!




------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Hey - Yes, I got to play the Pa588 at Summer NAMM. As George says, it is the Pa500 but with the same RH3 Graded Hammer Action, Stand and Half-damping Pedal that come with the SP-250.

The additional "PIANO" sound is from the C-720 - the Korg top-of-the-line home console. Four sample layers deep and with string resonance and hammer samples, etc.

Some guys just demand the 88 notes, and won't give it up to get the Pa Engine. So Korg made the Pa588 for them.

For some one like me who is a piano player first, it is nice that the Style Engine just keeps pace with me as if I was just playing piano alone. I dug it.

At the booth, Korg said the price will be about $2600 - a hundred dollars higher than what George Kaye guessed.

Oh, and available in August; maybe end of July!