I think Thats an unfair conclusion. I sell Yamaha keyboards and can buy them at cost and chose the Korg Pa2x. I always and still believe Yamaha has the best acoustic voices and a more polished song/style sound. I ended up chosing the Korg because it had more features as a work station and the 76 keys, I was never enamored with the sounds compared to Yamaha but did like the styles.however aftermarket styles for the Yamaha are far more plentiful and support is amazing as well.

But after a few months and a lot of manual digging, I decided for me in the end it was all about the sounds and since I use it for recording the polished sound helps in the mastering process. The Korg is deep and full of features and has a nice live sound. I await the T3.

The T3 may give us the guitar sequencer Im sure to miss. We have a couple of very heavy Roland RDs so having 61 keys is not an issue just a minor inconvenience when performing out until a very light Casio Privia solved that issue.

The Yamaha is simpler to learn and use as well for me. I mess with it at the store everyday. I was buried in the Korg manual more than the creation of music. I really wanted to love the PA2x. But even after being given some major guidance on it at NAMM in Nashville in the end its about the sounds, And Yamaha knows how to sample their own instruments and is the only company that even makes pianos and most the acoustic instruments they sample.

It's entirely fair to pump up what one sells and credibility does not suffer when one believes in a product enough to be SUCCESSFUL selling it. Who can sell something they do not like themselves? I told my customers I bought a Korg and why. But I also told them with the sounds I used the most I preferred Yamaha. As far as a workstation the Korg wins hands down.

I have high hopes for the T 3, I don't think I will be disappointed. While I wait I'm borrowing a PSR900 from the store. Since we have since become Korg dealers I may even pick up a PA800 to go along with the Tyros 3 to fill in some of the holes for live use, if there are any.

IF the gap from the T2 to the t3 is akin to the gap between the 3000 and 900 I am sure I won't be dissapointed.

I've often read from many users on this forum that Yamaha arrangers have "polished sounds", "CD quality", are "great for the studio" and sound "real", but I'll have to respectfully disagree. Having been a recording engineer for over 25 years I can honestly say that with the exception of a few of the Yamaha SA sounds and some of their synthesizer sounds, I have never heard a sound from a Yamaha arranger keyboard that sounds so real I'd ever mistake it for the actual real instrument. I've recorded numerous Yamaha grand pianos, Steinways, Bosendorfers and there is not a chance in hell that the Grand Piano sound on the Tyros 2 or what I've heard on the Tyros 3 demo holds a candle to the pianos I've recorded.

I've also been fortunate enough to record some amazing vintage Martin, Fender, and Les Paul guitars and while good, no SA or Megavoice is even remotely comparable.

Perhaps my standards are too high but for me real means it sounds real. The drums alone on Yamaha arrangers are pathetic, wimpy, lack punch or presence, and are and Achilles heel in my personal opinion. My AKAI sampler from the 1980's easily rivals the drum sounds on the Tyros 2 and somehow I doubt the Tyros 3 drums will be much of an improvement. It's a sad day when over the past 25 years Yamaha still can't sample better drum sounds than I have on my old AKAI sampler. Sad, very sad.

I've owned and used many Yamaha products and while I find many to be an excellent value at their respective price point, Yamaha's TOTL arrangers are not one of those products I feel represents the value you pay for them. For $4K I except a lot and I expect the product to be as good or better than anything else it competes with. Yamaha's build quality alone bears little in common with the likes of the PA2X, G70, Ketron SD1+, and other similar TOTL arrangers. I realize many people on here could care less if their $4K keyboard is made of plastic and has cheap buttons, but I do care. I want to know that the instrument I purchase is going to stand up to everyday professional use and isn't going to be outdated in a couple of years simply because the manufacturer decides software updates are no longer a priority for them.

One of the primary reasons I did buy a Wersi was because Wersi continually updates their instruments rather than orphans them. If you bought a Wersi back in 2000 you could update it to the same specifications as the one made in 2008. Can the same be said for any other arranger?

Perhaps one day Yamaha, Roland, and Korg will venture out and start making arrangers that are more future proof but they still haven't jumped on the band wagon. Korg and Roland are at least trying by offering updates to their instruments that actually ad new features, not just fixing bugs. I've yet to see Yamaha ever offer an update on their arrangers that has added new features and sounds and vastly improved the instrument. If I'm mistaken in that respect by all means feel free to clarify that for me. What Yamaha arranger product has had new sounds and features added via software or firmware that significantly improved the instrument?

Yeah but your are not the TYPICAL end listener who does not listen with "enginears" In that regard Yamaha can fool the average listener easily. I know I play them in the store and the everyday people are amazed at the sounds and swear they sound like the real thing.

Pilots can tell the slight differences in flying the same model plane as well.

Its all about the end listener not some studio engineer who has heard thousands of sounds and makes microscopic changes to mixes believing the end user will hear the adjustment An end user who is actually listening to music in high Signal to noise environments, on Mp3s and generally background.

The last person I would ask about a CD I recorded is a studio engineer. They find fault with each other's work!! The average Joan or Joe is the final word.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 08-30-2008).]

You want to see cheap buttons have a look at the Korg. The sliders are abysmal and the buttons on my Triton were always issue laden. The Tyros has massive buttons that are lit up in comparison.

If a keyboard is good out of the box it does not need constant firmware upgrades. I am one of those rare people that does not upgrade firmware unless it solves a problem I am having or need I want. I have seen firmware upgrades create more issues than they solve.

Frankly I am not sure how much more Yamaha can do to improve their sounds except more of the same. No keyboard is the end all.

But the Yamaha makes a great foundation whist the Korg makes a great addition to the mix. Just like the old U220 and Proteus One complimented each other with little overlap in their day.

The Wersis' and Ketrons may be all that but I won't buy a keyboard that is not readily supported technically on a local basis as the more mainstream products at least here in the US.

I play back midi files and the regular Joes and Jones cannot believe they are not listening to a CD audio file. That's our audience, listeners, and purchasers. Thats who Korg, Yamaha, and Roland is marketing to.

For one thing..., firmware upgrades aren't just to fix known bugs. When will Yamaha catch on to the concept of adding new features via an OS update..? The other's do it, but Yamaha's greedy mentallity is simply "you want an upgrade buy the new model". I like Yamaha arrangers, but I hate that they aren't adding new features to OS upgrades, and the actual upgrade will be more than $3,000!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-29-2008).]

Actually Squeak, they did make some dramatic changes in their firmware upgrades for the PSR-3000, T1 and T2. However, you have to own the keyboard in order to know that and how they were used. Background colors changed, fonts were modified, and several other items were improved. Keep in mind that upgrades can only be accomplished within the primary operating system. Otherwise, the entire operating system would have to be changed, and NO MANUFACTURER is willing to do this without coming out with a new keyboard.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Gary I believe this is exactly what Korg is doing with the operating system 2..It is also, according to what people have said and my interpretation of those comments, that Roland did the same with the OS update to version 2 on the G70. Pretty MAJOR changes, for free, and no new hardware in sight??

Dennis

PS: not trying to stir the pot, just an observation!!

Sorry I don't consider background colors and modified fonts to be a great OS update. Korg and Roland have added more than pretty new colors and modified font as upgrades via the OS updates. I could care less about all the colors they give to make the screen look all pretty, and could care less about modified font. I'd rather have changes that relate to MAKING MUSIC.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-29-2008).]

Gary

A agree 100% with you.
When a branch launches a kbd that needs constant upgrades, it's just a unfinished product and we are " De luxe" beta testers.

Chico

Why in the hell do so many keep associating OS updates ONLY with BUG FIXES? OS updates aren't just for fixing bugs.... They're also used to add NEW features. Korg and Roland not only fix bugs, but IMPROVE their keyboards for owners with OS upgrades/updates that add NEW FEATURES to the unit. USEFUL FEATURES TOO... I hardly consider screen colors, and modified fonts useful features when compared to the added features seen in Korg and Roland updates.