A few styles of OAS 7 for comparison

The styles themselves are Organ styles (Wersi’s main output is still organs) so if your looking for arranger styles you are out of luck. (Hopefully this post will encourage those who have the OAA (Open Art Arranger) to post arranger styles (NOT Yamaha styles please, but OAA styles)

The styles have been posted before using OAS 6 and the details can be found here http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/017879.html which will allow for comparisons.

I have deliberately left everything (EQ, Reverb etc) alone, just as you would get it OOTB. (Virtually all members here do tweak their settings before posting, but others keep moaning that they want to hear out of the box, (Even though most of them never use or post their keyboards like that) so hear they are)

No professional studio engineers were used, and neither were any multi thousand pound studio gear (Mixers, Compressors etc) that the manufacture have access too.

The recordings themselves were recorded direct to Hard Disk and then burnt onto CD, (All done within the Abacus) before being transferred to the main computer and converted to mp3 using Audacity and the lame mp3 encoder. (None of Audacity’s mastering tools were used; the conversion was straight to 192Kbs)

Sorry for the long winded description, but some on the site keep complaining that I do not provide enough information.

TIP. Don’t bother listening on computer speakers. (All arrangers deserve better)

Anyway here is the link http://www.4shared.com/file/64036054/7b0bbab1/Styles.html

Bill

Hi Abacus . Thank you for posting these demo's. You have consistently promoted the wersi and not just with words but with ptractical examples. If i may i would like to comment on what i have heard when comparing the OAS 6 with OAS7.

Firstly there is a marginal improvement to my ears in version 7. Leaving the programming alone for a minute. The guitars and drums sounded marginally better.

However sound quality is still in my opion not even in the same ball park as yamaha or korg for realism . I dont want you to feel like i am constantly dogging wersi Abacus. Thats not my intention, but i believe that Wersi may have a very flexible instrument in terms of what it might be capable of but what it is right now is a poor sounding arranger in comparrison to Korg Roland and yamaha. I am actually very disappointed as OAS 7 promised to be something special and to my ears does not even register as average in terms of sound. I know sound is subjective but not that subjective. If yamaha continually get critiscised for poor sounding/weak drums , then wersi should shoot their sound engineers for the example of druims that i heard in both the OAS6 and 7. All i can say is that the OAS7 should be a free upgrade. Noone should have to pay good money for that.

I applaud you for sticking with the WErsi and i hope you continue to enjoy making music on it. But i honestly fee it time for the emporer to put on some real clothes now.

"Us" Dutchies are known/notorious/feared/hated/loved (strike all that do not apply to your situation) for being annoyingly honest and straight-forward. We don't go around slapping people on the back telling them what a great instrument they have and then laugh behind their backs. If we think it sucks, we'll tell you.

Mind you: we don't tell you it DOES suck, it's just an OPINION. Mine, in this case.

And this, to MY ears, is the worst sounding arranger I've heard in years. Sorry.

Bart, you forgot to mention arrogant, argumentative and closed minded...

Bill I recognise a few styles from the Roland G1000.."Boogie2"...

Ah, I knew there was more

(But I guess you got it mixed up. "Arrogance" and "closed minded" are US Patents. :-)



[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 09-22-2008).]

Bart is right about the Wersi demo's and probably also about us Dutchies being straight forward ? .....

What can I say...? That hasn't already been said?

Perhaps just this... If I had paid $8000 for this, I'd have a pretty sick sensation in the pit of my stomach, right about now, knowing that this could easily be bettered with a $3000 arranger.

Until Wersi license one of the better general purpose VSTi's (Colossus, for example), and then develop a boatload of styles specifically for it, it's going to keep playing second fiddle to arrangers almost a third of it's price. It just seems such a waste to have the technology, and not use it to it's fullest advantage.

So close, and yet so far....

It sounds like a Technics KN2000,in that time one of the best arrangers.

Impuls.

Bill is it possible for you to make that file a little smaller? For an MP3 file.., it's freakin HUGE. Over 40mb's! I have DSL, but it's taking forever to load this file.

I liked the sound of the snare on the Every Breath you Take styles, but I also vote the we ban all CASTANET sounds from Styles. Just appalling.

Also, it would have helped if there were actual chord changes in those styles rather than the monotonous drone of a single chord and rhythm.

Al

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 09-23-2008).]

I finally got the file to load right. For some reason the "Player" portion of the page wasn't loading....

Anyways.., Bill my man.... I mean no disrespect at all and this is not by any means a knock on you (as this is clearly just styles).., but IMO those styles (and I will not sugarcoat) were terrible. This is what Wersi customers are paying those big bucks for? Set Open System aside for a moment. This is an arranger..., and the styles are a HUGE part of the arranger and the quality of the preset styles are one of the main features that lure in buyers.

Wersi has a VERY VERY VERY long way to go to catch up to Roland, Yamaha, and Korg IMO. Look.., the best studio monitors aren't going to make those styles sound much better.

It's not just the styles either. Some of the sounds within the styles are just very weak. The guitars on several styles were quite poor. That slap bass in one took me back to the Casio CTK's of the 90's. Many of these styles just reek of 80's cheese.., not just by groove but the sound quality as well.

Sorry to be so blunt.., but based on what you've posted thus far, if I even had the money the Wersi would never make my list. For the cost of the Wersi I could by the Tyros 3, Korg PA-800, and still have enough left over for a few more toys.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-23-2008).]

Wow, for an $8000 Casio it sounds great...

Just compare to these:
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/WK_fastbigband_hifi.mp3
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/wk_jazzcombo_hifi.mp3
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/WK_schlager_hifi.mp3
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/WK_danceschlager_hifi.mp3
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/WK_16btshuffl1_hifi.mp3
http://www.casio-europe.com/it/downloads/emi/WK_mellow8beat_hifi.mp3

Even if obviously sounds are of lower quality, overall are better balanced and blended together.

[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 09-23-2008).]

Man..., I think those Casio styles sound more up to date to be honest.., and they do seem to be balanced a tad better too.

I've said if before and I'll say it again. The styles on my twenty-year-old Roland E-20 were better than those cheesily awful Wersi ones. And better by quite some margin.

I am left wondering if the repeated posting of these cringe-makingly poor Wersi efforts is some kind of elaborate practical joke?

I mean, they cannot possibly be real, on a supposedly top-of-the-line 2008 arranger that costs more than three times what I paid for my E-80.

Is it me??

Nope.., it's not you. If I read Bill's post correctly these are "untweeked" for the "out of box" experience. If that's what they sound like out of the box.., then I suggest tweek, tweek, tweek, for the love of Pete.., they need tweeked!

And these KB's cost 3x as much as anything on teh market? why?

Because wealthy organ aficionados will pay through the nose for the same brand that Klaus Wunderlich plays, I guess. Skill through association, I suppose.

Have a listen to Roland, Orla, Lowry, Bohm etc organs and you will find the styles are similar to the Wersi, (And most of the above organs cost just as much as the Wersi organs (The Roland’s pretty much match price for price) for the simple reason that they are designed for Organ players NOT Arranger players.
If you want arranger styles then you need the OAA (Open Art Arranger) as I mentioned in my post.
The sounds used in the styles work well when playing Organ, but I quite agree are not suitable for Arranger playing, this is why the OAA comes with a lot more sounds specifically for Arranger playing.
BTW all this was mentioned in my post. (So much for those that say they wanted more information with my posts, yet don’t even bother to read it)
Anyway I have also started another thread to find out how to get the best out of mp3, because at present they just do not give you sound that you get live. (I hope somebody can crack the problem, as I am hitting a brick wall at present)

Bill

Er, I have "had a listen" to a Roland organ. I've enjoyed playing several Atelier models. If you think Roland's Atelier styles "are similar to the Wersi", you've either not played one or you're kidding yourself.

In any case, this "all organs have crap styles" apology for the Wersi is a quite bizarre argument to make. If that's the best that can be said for the Abacus, who in their right mind is paying all that money for one???

I played Ateliers at music exibitions and they sounded the same as my G-70 styles and somewhat better. In fact many of Atelier styles are the same used on Roland arrangers, so I see all this "organ styles" vs "arranger styles" argument irrilevant.

The problem here is how to convince somebody to spend 10 times the money to get something that OOTB has styles worse than a Casio!

[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 09-23-2008).]

I think I begin to see the light...

Organ players DON'T WANT realistic styles or sounds! It would distract from the unrealistic organ sounds too much!

I guess if your main style of music is playing styles, songs and stuff from the seventies and earlier, using seventies quality sounds is going to get you a lot closer to the sound of the heyday of the 'home organ'. Cheesy drum sounds, unrealistic guitar sounds (and more castanets!) kind of defined that period in organ history.

So, naturally, an organ that sounded as cheesy as those early Thomas's, Lowery's and even Wersi's is going to resonate well with people who's musical tastes (and equipment choices) haven't changed in forty years, and run to that dated style...

In the meantime, the rest of us have made it to the 21st century, and are never looking back!

Still, it makes you wonder... The whole 'open' arranger, VSTi's and hi-tech computers, in the hands of players who mostly want to sound like Klaus Wunderlich in the seventies! No wonder there's a real lack of user demos that utilize this 21st century technology. No-one really wants to sound THAT modern (or they'd already have a T2/PA2X/G70!).

But, I guess most of them buy it and install it, just to one-up each other at the organ club meeting... 99% of all OAS users would probably sound better OOTB on a T2 than struggling with OAS and those lame styles (if they even wanted to sound contemporary, that is).

I'll tell you one thing these Wersi owners don't stint on, though, and it may well be one of the reasons they praise it so highly... A really good speaker system. I can't count how many TOTL arranger users I've heard here that play their amazing 21st century machines through crap keyboard amps, gerry-rigged home theater systems or even the pathetic built-in speakers

Run it through as strong and well designed a sound system, and it'll sound even better. Running a $3500 arranger through a $500 amp just doesn't make sense. Try a $1500 set of reference monitors and subs, and all of a sudden, you finally hear the TRUE sound of your arranger!

But organ players go one more step... instead of listening to the speakers directly, organs are designed to bounce the sound of the speakers all around the room. There are often several different speakers for different sections of the organ, sometimes pointing different ways. But one thing they all tend to have in common is that you NEVER get to hear the speaker directly. It always bounces around, and fills up the room before you hear it. Quite impressive, if done right...

Try it yourself, some time... set up your monitors so you get an indirect sound, point them away from you, into the walls and corners of the room. You'll probably have to adjust the EQ a bit, but it can give you a bigger sound if you want that (but not necessarily a more accurate one!).

Anyway... sadly, Bill, few here are still into the sixties and seventies organ scene, so it's hardly surprising that the Wersi doesn't get the praise you think it deserves. For that niche style of music, it's probably pretty good. But for the same reason I don't gig with a harpsichord (no-one seems to know how to minuet and gavotte any more!), I can't really ever see me using something that dated sounding Wersi, either...

The Wersi is by no means an organ any more than any other arranger or workstation keyboard is. Sure some people use arrangers/workstations as organs but I doubt many people would pay a premium price for any instrument if that's all that it was capable of. The Wersi does far more than organ sounds and the simple style demo's Bill posted are in no way reflective of the actual instrument sounds on the Wersi. All it shows are some basic styles using mostly GM/GS/XG based sounds and its not remotely indicative of what the Wersi factory sounds are like. Not unlike most keyboards the GM/GS/XG sounds are far from stellar.

I didn't find the styles Bill posted to be bad but they weren't great either. I own a Wersi OAS 7 and if I didn't know what the instrument truly sounds like or its incredible capabilities, I'd probably think it wasn't good from the style demos alone. Thankfully I know better.

Well, that statement alone tells me enough. Next time you tell us something is "awesome", I'll translate that into "mediocre".

I wonder how hard is it to change sounds with in the style?
Are there any onboard styles that do not use GM sounds. I would like to here styles with changes

The OAS style sounds can be easily changed, but only for the whole track. (The OAS style engine although updated extensively is now about 8 – 9 years old)
If you have the OAA (Open Art Arranger) they can be changed per part, (Intro/ variation/fill etc) track and chord. (If memory serves correctly up to 16 variations)
In addition the number of parts are increased fro 8 to 18.

Bill

OK, so you are thankful to know it sounds better than this... How about YOU demoing a few of these 'good' styles? So that we could be thankful, too...

I find it strange that Bill is the only one willing to post anything Wersi here, they invariably sound appalling, and nobody with a Wersi is willing to admit that this IS what they sound like OOTB... (but they are unwilling to SHOW that they do not). I know my G70, although it has a legacy GS soundset in it as well as the new stuff, none of the styles address them very much. OOTB, that is. If there is a better soundset in the Wersi (not a self-installed VSTi), why don't the factory styles address them? Surely such an advanced arranger is capable of a simple 'use the new sounds' command to avoid this.

And sorry, but my G70's basic GS sounds are FAR better than those Wersi ones, in the first place! Yet alone the new sounds. But if those styles weren't 'bad', I'd sure like to hear some of them for the Wersi that ARE 'bad'! I need a good laugh! Those already gave me a chuckle.

I'm sorry, but at this point in the dialog, I just don't think you are going to get ANYONE to simply 'trust' you on this one. We have all heard innumerable Wersi demos that ALL had the same '15 year-old Roland (that's being generous ) in a skating rink' quality. IF the Wersi sounds better than this, we are going to have to hear it to believe it. Usually, around here, if someone posts something really terrible, somebody posts something better as a refutation.

Not sit around and go 'Trust me, it really DOES sound better than this. But I'm NOT going to prove it. I'm just going to talk, talk, talk...' until we are possibly hypnotized, or maybe just bored into giving up!

Well, I gave up long ago...

DIKI, You don't know what you talking about if you say that those plastic japanese toys sound better than WERSI !!!
You are only jalous, because you can't afford one !!!

Stay with your crappy roland and yamaha's !!!

Well, I may not be right

But I know what I've heard... same thing all the rest of you have heard. Pure, unadulterated, well, you know

Talk, talk, talk... That's all you seem to be able to do. Post some music, or give it a rest. All you are doing is talk the talk.

I'll walk the walk, any day!

Hey..HEY..HEY!!!!!!

Don't talk about my Roland like that!!!..

In fact, I tell you what...

Arranger death match! Two arrangers enter, one arranger leaves

Post anything you have done (not some professional demonstrator) in style mode on a Wersi... I'll post the same tune on my G70. Any tune, any style, any time, mate!

Loser has to wear Donny's chicken hat on their next gig

Clowntime is over (thank you, Elvis!)... time to get REAL!

I personally think that the examples posted leave a lot to be desired. But I believe we have to praise Bill for bothering to post them. Bill is constantly contributing "heads up" information relevant to every brand or interest, WITHOUT trying to "color" it.

In my personal opinion, setting suitable sound levels for the style mix is not a "tweak" by itself, I also think that the examples posted needed some minor adjustments and that the final result would be better, without losing the "OOTB" quality.

Even then, and I hope it doesn't sound like blasphemy, the styles themselves remind me of my Casio. The actual sounds are better of course, but nothing I can't achieve using VSTs. To my (headphoned) ears, it sounded like a mix of Roland HyperCanvas VST and / Hypersonic 2 GM library, say 1/3 Hypercanvas - 2/3 Hypersonic 2 GM. Serve cold.

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 09-24-2008).]

Sadly, to at least SOME Wersi owners, anything negative whatsoever IS 'blasphemy', or maybe even 'heresy'

Of course, being 'true believers', they feel we should take The Word from them with no proof whatsoever. THEY believe, so why shouldn't we?

Look, maybe I sound like a broken record, but so do the owners... Bill's the only one posting, and even HE gets the same line from other Wersi owners 'Oh no, it doesn't sound THAT bad if you actually play one!'

AND HE PLAYS ONE...!

And he NEVER prefaces his posts with 'this is the WORST Wersi styles and sounds I can find...', which, if they were (from what others say) you would think he would, or at least post the BEST Wersi styles and sounds he has!

Try this out for size...

I have done some internal modifications to my G70, that completely changes the sound, and made it better than any other arranger on the planet. Nothing else even comes close to it...

Mind you, I am NEVER going to post anything that shows off this improvement. In fact, I'm going to post some dreadful styles from the eighties using the raw GM sounds. But don't you DARE doubt me when I tell you go sell your rubbish T3's and PA2Xpro's, your Abacus's and MS's! WHY WOULD I LIE TO YOU? You KNOW you can trust me, don't you?

MY G70 sounds NOTHING like anyone else's...

Oh, and by the way, if I ever DO post something that sounds like crap from my 'improvements' modification sounds, it will only suck because you are listening to a 192kbps MP3. In MY house, it sounds like a million dollars!

Sound familiar?

Diki... I think you got to the point....

Here's what they are selling:
http://www.wersi.net/html/fl_paket.html

Apparently their target is people that want s 10-15 years old sounds. "Fantasia" D50 preset everywhere!!!!

20 year old more like it...!

D-50 came out in 1987

Wersi organists love that old Roland D-50 Fantasia sound. Every Wersi recording I've heard over the last few years has been dripping in it.

Suprised to see Franz Lambert's name being used to punt those sub-Casio styles, though. Not least because, like Wersi's other great unpaid salesman, the late Herr Wunderlich, he never uses auto-accompaniment (can you blame them?).

Interestingly Wersi actually started out as a 'built it yourself' kit organ company as most people could not afford to buy them already built.

I have to chip to say that I have had a few older arrangers a while ago and the styles sounded very similar to the some of the ones posted here...I traded them in within days...some of the Wersi styles were 'laugh out loud' cheesy...I could not beleive it! very entertaining though...almost like musical comedy!

Noel

[This message has been edited by pasadoble (edited 09-25-2008).]

Heres's the translated version.

Page 1
http://www.wersiclub.co.uk/franzlambertedition1.html


Page 2
http://www.wersiclub.co.uk/franzlambertedition2.html

Bill