Originally posted by J. Petersen:
I'm confused after reading various Web explanations of the VE-JV1.
It is promoted to be for the JV-35,JV-50,JV-90, & JV-1000 synths yet some posters say that it is essentially a duplication of the JV-80/JV-1000 while others claim it's a duplication of the JV-90 (which is what I have). I found two posters who have the VE-JV1 installed in their JV-90s, so I assume there is some benefit. Why would this board be promoted for use with synths that it duplicates and is there any benefit (in terms of additional sounds) in the VE-JV1 for a JV-90?
Funny you should bring this up, I guess you
may not have read my review at Harmony Central, which was pretty thorough.
I've owned one for five years, and the basic idea is that it "duplicates" the JV-80/90/1000 soundset, along with some extra programs from the contemporary composer card.
That may sound like duplication, but the deal with the older 28 voice Roland stuff is that you run out of polyphony. In a four voice structure, you only get 7 NOTES.
Adding a VE-JV1 lets you layer two different JV series sounds on two different synth engines for a fatter sound, or gives you extra polyphony for multi channel sequences.
What it DOES NOT DO, is give you one 56 voice instrument, it's actually two independent synths in one case, that just happen to share the same sound set.
It'd be like midi'ing two JV-90's together. You're not going to get a 56 voice piano, you'll get a 28 voice one, that can be layered with another one, but the polyphony is not shared or linked.
I kind of have a love/hate relationship with the VE-JV1, for the money it's a great thing, but operationally it's a HUGE headache.
I've copied my review here, in case you didn't want to go to HC, beware this is pretty long and thorough, but it sounds like that's what you want.
I just posted it last week, so you may not have seen it yet:
Regards,
Jay Storey
Price Paid: US $195
Ease of Use: 1
The Roland VE-JV1 is an expansion board that was designed for some mid
90's Roland synths. It fits the JV-90 (NOT the JV-80)and the JV-1000
that I know of, it might fit a few other Roland synths of that era.
Right up front understand that this board (and the other one, the VE-GS1)
are NOT the same as the SRV-JV80 wave expansion boards, although they are
similiar in concept in that they have sample ROM and patches on them.
The VE-JV1 is basically a "synth on a card" it has most of the parameters
of the JV-90/JV-1000 synth engines and the same sound set as the
JV-1000, with the addition of two extra banks of patches, which came
from a "contemporary composer" ROM card that Roland sold.
The VE-GS1 is basically the same, only it is a General Midi card, and
can take up to 16 channels, whereas the VE-JV1 only does 8 channels.
I have my VE-JV1 installed in a Roland JV-90 synth, I bought the card
new when I bought the synth.
I guess there may have been different software rev's of the VE-JV1,
depending on when they were made, but I kind of doubt it.
I don't know what rev mine is (if there is such a thing as a rev), but
I bought it in April of 1995.
Let me get a couple of bitches out of the way up front:
1. NO FRIGGIN PATCH RAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's right, although you can edit some of the sounds on the board,
change midi channels, etc., etc., there is no way to save your efforts.
That's right, the board defaults back to factory settings every time
you cut it off.
This blows big chunks in a very suckass fashion. Roland never really
let this little fact be known, and I have to say I might have passed
on buying the board if I had known this.
Since it has all the same patches as my JV-90, I basically use the
VE-JV1 for the "stock" sounds of the JV-90, and use the synth engine
of the JV-90 for my custom programmed sounds.
2. NO PERFORMANCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Performance" is Roland speak for a multi-timbral setup. Since there is
no RAM on the VE-JV1, it basically has "one performance" which is what
ever set of patches and midi channels you set it too.
The big problem here, is that if you go back and read Bitch #1, is that
you can setup the VE-JV1 with sounds and midi channels that you like,
but that info goes away when you shut off the keyboard.
This includes on/off assignments for each of the channels. Each time
you cut on the keyboard, the VE-JV1 defaults to having ALL the midi
channels enabled, which is ridiculous as it only has 28 voice polyphony
and can barely run two or three channels without crapping out.
I could work around not having "performances", if the damn thing would
just remember what I set it to when I shut it off.
Bascially, if you have a VE-JV1 installed, every time you cut on your
keyboard, you'll have to set it up how you want it.
It will respond to midi program changes on the appropriate channels, so
you can automate setting up your patches at least using a computer, but
you still have to cut on or off the appropriate midi channels.
3. FIXED CONTROL CHANNEL THAT CAN'T BE TURNED OFF
I don't know why the hell they even bothered with this.
The "control channel" on my JV-90 is the channel that performances are
selected with. I normally set my JV-90 to channel 9, and use midi
program changes to select performances.
Now the VE-JV1 also has a control channel, but since it has no performances
I don't understand what the point is?
I do know this, the channel is set to 16, it cannot be changed AND IT
CANNOT BE TURNED OFF.
This blows HUGE CHUNKS, as basically if you have a program change coming
into the synth on channel 16 (even if it's for another synth, or the
main synth engine of the JV-90), it WILL RESET ALL THE CHANNELS OF
THE VE-JV1 to "ON", and all of a sudden the VE-JV1 starts playing parts
on all channels.
You can work around this if you have a mega multi-port interface, and put
the VE-JV1 on it's own port (and make sure no channel 16 program
changes are on that port). In my case, I only have a two port interface,
and use one port for my effects and mixing console (midi muting), and
the other for my synths.
What this requires me to do is setup my synth that uses channel 16(a
Yamaha CS1-x) to the appropriate program, then turn that change off
in the sequencer. Then go back and cut the appropriate VE-JV1 channels
that I'm not using off.
What really pisses me off is that you can change or disable this
reception on the JV-90 itself, but not on the VE-JV1.
4. POLYPHONY
Roland's big claim with this board and the JV-90/1000 is that when
you hooked it up, you went from 28 voice to 56 voice polyphony.
I'm really glad that other people reviewing the JV-90/1000 and the
VE-JV1 have picked up on this little bit of bullshit.
Technically, Roland is correct, you do get 56 voice polyphony, but
they hint at massive Piano polyphony which is not the case.
Bascially what you get is another synth, with 28 voice polyphony.
You can layer the same sound between the main synth and the VE-JV1,
but you still only have 28 voices. There is no "spillover mode" that
let's the board take up the lost notes.
You are really just using two synths in one case, that happen to have
the same soundset, but the polyphony is separate, not linked.
Roland's claim is like saying you can get a 64 voice piano by midi-ing
a Korg Trinity with a Proteus module.
If your music does arrangements that use many different parts, you can
split them between the main synth engine and the VE-JV1, and that will
help a lot, but you're not going to get 56 voice polyphony on one
sound.
PRESET SOUNDS
For mid 1990's, pretty kick ass. The VE-JV1 uses the same sample set
as the JV-90 and JV-1000 which was four meg of sample ROM.
This is pretty lame these days, but was pretty good for back then.
Since the sounds and samples are the same as the JV-90 (just some additional
programs) it sounds like, well a JV-90.
If you like the Roland sound, which is pretty big, beefy, and cuts well,
you would like the VE-JV1.
Obviously it's not going to hold a candle to what's on the market now,
but the sounds (other than the Pianos and brass sounds) are pretty damn
good.
Editing patches is kind of strange. On the JV-90 at least, there are
a set of buttons accessed with a sort of "shift" mode, that lets you
edit the VE-JV1 sounds, but you don't get the full set of editing
parameters that you do with the internal JV-90 synth.
The other thing is that since there is no patch RAM in the VE-JV1, why
the hell would you want to edit the sounds since you can't save them?
There is a workaround to the lack of patch ram, in that you can tweak
the VE-JV1 sounds, then do a midi dump to a computer. Then later dump
those sounds back in to get your edited versions, but that is a
needless pain in the ass. The other problem with this approach is that
the VE-JV1 does an all or nothing dump. You can only dump the entire
contents of the board, not just the program you've tweaked.
My recommendation would be to do what I do, use the VE-JV1 for the stock
sounds that you like, and edit the RAM patches in your JV-90/1000 for
your "custom" sounds.
I have a patch editor for my Roland JV-90, I guess it would work
for the VE-JV1, but like I said, why bother?
The manual REALLY sucks, I mean REALLY sucks. The VE-JV1 is basically a
JV-90 on a card, so what does it get in the manual - two pages!!!!!!
They don't even mention the lack of patch ram "feature", and don't
tell you that the control channel can't be turned off.
Roland manuals are notorious for being badly written, I think the
JV-90/VE-JV1 manual is probably the worst of the worst.
I know a WHOLE lot about synths, I've playd and programmed them for
almost 14 years, if you were a synth newbie and got a hold of a
JV-90/1000 with a VE-JV1 installed, you'd basically be screwed.
The thing still confuses the hell out of me, and I've owned it for
five years...
The VE-JV1 is easier to use than the rating I've given it, but I'm
taking off major points for:
1. Lack of Patch RAM to store programs and/or performances
2. The fixed midi control channel that can't be disabled
3. Roland's marketing bullshit about 56 voice polyphony.
I never believed the 56 voice poly thing (I read between the lines,
and figured out it was really two synths in one case, no poly
spillover or integration), but a lot of people did.
Roland is notorious for this kind of marketing bullshit, the V-Drums
are a great example. They have a lot of people thinking that all
the V-Drum sounds are "Modeled", not sampled, when in reality only some
of the kicks and snares are modeled, and even some of them are sampled.
I love the sound of Roland gear, but I really hate the company, they
are the biggest BS artists around.
Features: 4
28 voice polyphony - read the above diatribe about Roland's 56 voice
polyphony scam.
One thing to keep in mind is that Roland's patch scheme allows you to
layer up to four tones in a patch.
If you layer four tones on a VE-JV1 patch, that cuts the polyphony to
SEVEN NOTES.
Most of the patches use two or three tones, so the effective polyphony
of the VE-JV1 is actually more like TEN TO FOURTEEN notes.
Same built in effects (chorus, reverb, delay) as the JV-90. Pretty basic
but serviceable, no cool stuff like distortion, rotary speaker, etc.
Pretty easy to use the effects, as there are not a lot of parameters,
the reverbs can sound pretty harsh at short reverb times, and the
decay is kind of un-natural at long times, but overall the effects are
not too bad.
The VE-JV1 is an expander board (a synth on a card), other than being
able to dump all the patches to a computer there is no expansion
capability.
It responds to all the usual midi controller messages, and does that
pretty well.
One nice feature is that on the JV-90 at least, there is a dedicated
midi in port for the VE-JV1. this really lets you run it as a separate
device if you want to.
There is a switch on the back panel to switch from internal to external
midi in - internal takes the midi in of the JV-90 and routes it also
to the VE-JV1.
One downside of using the external in setting, is that it "divorces" the
VE-JV1 from front panel control by the JV-90.
Still it's a nice feature to have.
There are also dedicated stereo outs for the VE-JV1 (on my JV-90 at
least). These are great, and I use them all the time.
If you unplug them, the audio from the VE-JV1 by default comes out
the same stereo pair as the rest of the JV-90.
All in all, a pretty good feature set for the mid 1990's, but again
the lack of patch RAM and the fixed control channel can really limit
how much you can do with the VE-JV1.
Expressiveness/Sounds: 6
The sounds are the same as the JV-90/JV-1000, with some additional patches.
To summarize them:
1. PIANOS - pretty weak, I have the SRV-JV-80 Piano expansion board
(8 meg) and it totally kicks ass on the JV-90/VE-JV1 pianos.
They don't out and out suck, but I'd keep the piano tracks hidden
behind other layers if I was just using the VE-JV1.
2. BRASS - Mostly sucks, some of the sounds are useable, but only in
a synth brass application. Way too much high end and no beef.
3. STRINGS - great, Roland strings have always been great and these
are no exception
4. PADS - Like the strings they are great
5. SYNTHS - great to totally sucky. The VE-JV1 has great filters, but
as I have said, you better like the patch because editing it is such
a pain in the ass and you can't save it.
6. ORGANS - kind of like the synths, some suck, some are pretty good.
I usually reach for something else when I want organ sounds though
7. OTHER KEYBOARDS - Electric pianos are pretty good (in particuliar
"West Coast" is a great Electric grand patch that is still being
recycled even on the XV series modules - whoever originally wrote that
patch should get a medal), other keyboards are decent.
8. Percussion sounds - I've always used external modules for drums, just\
so much eaiser to deal with, but the various mallet and steel drum
type patches are very good.
The VE-JV1 would work well for rock, top 40 types of stuff, it's a real
meat and potatoes collection of sounds. Classical sounds are ok, but
you're not going to fool anyone.
Since there are a lot of good key and EP patches, it would be good for
Jazz.
There are some good synth sounds and zaps, etc. for Dance music, but
they are so hard to get at and tweak, I couldn't imagine somebody
doing dance music using a VE-JV1. By the time you figured out how to
sweep the filter from the front panel of the JV-90, the tune would be
half over.
REALLY GOOD SOUNDS for 1994/1995, they are pretty dated now though.
Reliability: 3
My VE-JV1 freaks out occasionally, mainly I can't get any sound out of
it. IT's usually a midi related thing, if I cut the JV-90 on/off again
it usually fixes the problem.
Like most roland stuff it's pretty reliable, but the JV-90/1000 are known
for having buttons on the front panel fail, and once that happens you
are screwed as that's the only way to control and setup the VE-JV1.
I think on a gig, I'd just use the internal synth from the JV-90 and
bypass using the VE-JV1. It's such a pain in the ass to use, even in
the studio, that using it live would just be asking for trouble.
I do have a couple of live performances set up with my JV-90, where
what I've done is dedicate four zones to the VE-JV1.
Then I set up those four zones on four different channels, and use
the zone buttons on the front panel to cut on four different VE-JV1
sounds.
This works ok, but I wouldn't use it at a gig where someone would be
able to throw shit at me...
Customer Support: 1
Roland totally blows, I would never depend on their tech support.
I called them after I found out about the patch RAM thing with the
VE-JV1, they had NO IDEA what I was talking about.
I doubt that Roland would even discuss the VE-JV1 with you now, Roland
tends to forget about any product that's older than three or four
years old.
Overall Rating: 6
Well it would be kind of hard to have a VE-JV1 "get lost or stolen"
without also losing the JV-90 that it's inside of.
I guess if I had to do it all over again, I'd still go with the board,
because there is no way you'd be able to buy another synth for $195
that sounds as good as a VE-JV1, even today.
The VE-JV1 has continued to piss me off, but the basic sound of the
unit is pretty damn good, it's just a shame that Roland's integration
of the VE-JV1 into the synth itself was so half-assed.
The VE-JV1 pretty much got obsoleted when the JV-1080 came out, as it
had 64 voice poly, which was totally integrated into one unit, allowing
all 64 voices to be used on one patch.
I'm not really a keyboard player, I play bass, but I've been dabbling with
synths for almost 14 years now. I consider myself to be better than the
average keyboard player wannabe, but I'm still a bit of a wanker.
My other collection of synths includes:
1. ROLAND JV-90 (the VE-JV1 is installed in this), with the SRV-JV-80
Piano expansion board (highly recommended if you own a JV-90 or
JV-1000).
The JV-90/VE-JV1 is the core of my setup, I use it for all the basic
patches and sounds, mainly run of the mill stuff.
I commonly layer one or two patches from the JV-90, along with a patch
from the VE-JV1.
This combo sounds pretty damn good, but of course is lacking in
polyphony. Works well for piano type stuff as long as you don't roll
ten note chords with the sustain pedal down.
2. KORG DW-8000 with Angel City Turbo Expansion board - As you can tell,
I'm sort of big into expansion boards. The DW-8000 was my first synth,
and I still use it a lot for organ and bass sounds. The Angel City board
(reviewed here on HC) adds functions, and patches, and patch memory, but
not polyphony.
3. KAWAI K1 - pretty cool synth when I bought it in 1989, but of
course pretty lame these days. I've got a great custom library for it
though, and most people that hear mine can;t believe it's a K1.
I know the thing pretty well, and can't get anything for selling it, so
I just hold on to it.
Mainly used for what it does well - breathy pads, bell type sounds,
tinkly things, and some organ patches.
4. PROTEUS F/X - Bought this one in 1995, the orchestral sounds are
pretty cool, but most of the other sounds are kind of thin.
It's a pretty good rack module, but in retrospect, I wish I'd bought
something with more balls.
I think I'd like to sell this one and maybe get a Proteus 2000, or for
even more $$$, a new XV-3080 module (I'm a big fan of Roland sounds)
5. ALESIS D-4 - A great little drum module, I've used this little
puppy for going on 8 years now. I plan on getting a new E-Drum setup,
but I'll probably hold on to the D-4 just for all the old sequences that
use the sounds from it.
Probably the best $240 I spent.
6. OBERHEIM MATRIX 1000 - Ahh the secret weapon. I've owned this thing
since 1988 and it never ceases to bring a smile to my face.
No effects, only six voices, and you have to use a computer to program
it, but the sounds totally kick ass.
I think some of the "virtual analogs" have probably equaled or excelled
this module, but for $400 new, I wouldn't part with it for anything.
Roland should have taken a hint from the Obie guys, you can link
mulitiple Matrix 1000's (Or with a matrix 6 or matrix 6R) and share
polyphony between them. Instead of only having six voices, you can hook
up to 6 units together for REAL 36 voice polyphony.
I plan on eventually getting a second unit - 12 voice stereo analog
synthesis - mmmm yummmyyy...
7. Yamaha CS-1x - A cool little blue beast, with great real time
control, but it ain't analog (although it tries to sound that way),
and some of the sounds are pretty thin.
Pretty good deal for $600new , my long term plan is to replace the
CS1-x with a Waldorf XT-K.
My main application for the CS-1x is triggering it with a Roland
PK-5 midi pedal, while I'm playing bass.
It works pretty well for that, and would be a great starter synth for $300
on the used market, but I outgrew it pretty quick.
WHAT I LOVE (about the VE-JV1)
Sounds are pretty bitchin for 1995, less so today, but they still hold
their own. Lot of patches with a lot of variety on the board.
WHAT I HATE
LOTS - the fact that the VE-JV1 seems to be barely integrated with
the host synth, I think the Korg implementation of this concept (with
the Trinity expansion boards) was a lot better.
No patch ram - pretty much restricts you to just using the presets,
thank goodness the preset sounds are pretty good.
Control change channel - Since there are no performances, I'm still
kind of wondering what the point of this was. The fact that unlike the
JV-90, you can't disable the reception, or change the channel sucks in
an incredible way...
Polyphony - 28 voices were barely enough in 1994 (Most everybody else
did 32), especially with four voice tones. Enough polyphony (48 voices)
to be able to play ten notes with four tones enabled on a patch would
have been nice.
Manual - The VE-JV1, since it is even harder to use than a stock
JV-90 certainly deserves more than two pages in the JV-90 manual.
COMPARISONS
Well I did check out the Korg X series at the time, and it was no
contest. The X series sounds pretty good, but the front panel was pretty
sparse in terms of buttons and sliders, which translates into ease of use
for me, and frankly I found that synth (The X2 and X3) to be incredibly
ugly. The JV-90 is just so much cooler looking. Also on the X series,
there was no expansion, and no resonant filters.
The O1/W was out at the time, but easily cost double what the JV-90 cost.
I paid about $1250 for the JV-90, and getting a second on board synth
for another $195 seemed like a no brainer. Well I knew about the
polyphony catch, but I assumed the thing would at least have a bank of
patch RAM, something Roland sort of omitted from their ad copy.
I really liked the sound of the JV-90, and it's controller feature set,
so adding the VE-JV1 seemed like a good bet.
I do have to say that I've enjoyed the piano sound ROM/patch expansion
board (for which I paid $280 in 1995) a lot more than I have the VE-JV1.
WISH LIST
Well not to be redundant, but:
1. 128 (or 64 at least) places on the VE-JV1 for patch Ram
2. 32 (or at least 16) places on the VE-JV1 for performance setups
3. Better integration into the JV-90 editing environment
4. Ability to dump or save individual patches from the VE-JV1 board
5. Let me TURN OFF THE FRIGGIN control channel, and let me change it
from channel 16.
The JV-90/VE-JV-1 combo has really helped me make a lot of music.
The sounds I can get by layering the two really improve the overall
quality of sound relative to just playing the JV-90 alone.
Since the JV-90 (and the VE-JV1) only have 28 voices of polyphony,
trying to layer patches is really impractical, as even if both patches
only use two tones, if you layer two patches, you only get SEVEN notes
of polyphony.
Using the VE-JV1 to layer a patch with the stock JV-90 allow me to get
DOBULE the polyphony in such a situation (14 notes from each one, layered
together to get a really thick sound) and is the main reason I keep
the VE-JV1 around.
Unless you have a VE-JV1 inside your JV-90/JV-1000, it really is only
useful in patch mode, unless your performances use a lot of single note
lines.
Like I said, the JV-90/VE-JV1 layered sound comprises the core of my
setup, If I had waited a year or two, I could have gotten the same
thing (and then more) by buying a JV-1080, but I think the JV-90 was
probably the best controller that Roland ever made (for non-weighted).
I use the JV-90 to control my entire rig, since it has 8 zones with
dedicated on/off buttons, and sliders for each zone, I setup performances
that have the JV-90 internal synth on zone 1, the layer from the VE-JV1
on the second zone, and then I can add or control up to six more synths
(Korg DW-8000, Kawai K-1, Proteus F/X, Oberheim Matrix 1000, etc.)
from the other zones.
Since I really like the Roland sounds, I might wind up getting the new
XV-3080 module, and maybe just using the JV-90 to control that, but I
have to say that after 5 years, I've certainly gotten my money's worth
out of the JV-90/VE-JV1 combination.
I have a small home studio, and work with several keyboard players, and
they all agree that the JV-90/VE-JV1 sounds really good, especially for
a five year old synth.
I realize that I've ragged pretty hard on the VE-JV1 here, keep in mind
that most of my criticizms probably also apply to the VE-GS1 as well.
The problem with the VE-JV1 is not the board itself, but the lack of
integration with the JV-90.
Any synth that you have to totally reconfigure every time you start it up
is just lame. I would have gladly paid $100 more just to have some RAM
to remember my channel assignements and settings, and be able to save
64 programs.
I have to warn anybody considering one of these boards that the learning
curve is steep and overall the thing is just a real pain in the ass to
use. It shouldn't really be that way, but it is.
Having said that, I will say that a JV-90/1000 without the board is
going to be pretty limited, basically you will need to use that unit in
patch mode only, unless you only play with two or three fingers at a
time.
I don't know what these things are worth on the used market, maybe $100
or so, at that price they would be worth picking up.
If you found a JV-90/VE-JV1 combo like mine, and the price was right,
I'd scoop it up, but I wouldn't pay a premium for the board alone.
With a JV-90/1000, I think the average person is going to get a lot
more use out of the wave expansion boards (the SRV-JV80 series) than the
voice expansion boards.
It's obvious to me that the VE-JV1 was just stop gap measure.
Roland realized at that point (1993/1994) that they were not going
to be able to sell only 28 note poly for long, but the JV-1080 64 voice
module was still on the drawing board.
The VE-JV1 was a way for them to offer increased polyphony (in MULTI-
TIMBRAL MODE, NOT FOR A SINGLE PATCH) as an option for those that
wanted to pay extra, but still keep the price of a stock unit down.
About a year later, the JV-1080 came out, and I began to wonder if I had
screwed up, but the reality is that I paid about the same for my JV-90
and VE-JV1 as I would have for the JV-1080 module alone, and got a
great controller to boot.
If I had known about the JV-1080 coming out, I still probably would
have bought the JV-90 (for the 8 zone controller), and when you really
think about it, $195 for the VE-JV1, versus $1500ish (in 1995) for the
JV-1080 was a no brainer.
I think the VE-JV1 is a good unit, but not great, if you see one for
$100 and need it, snag it, but otherwise there are better ways to spend
your time..
Submitted by Jay Storey at 11/27/2000 08:21
Summary
Manufacturer URL
www.rolandus.com Ease of Use
1 (1 response)
Features
4 (1 response)
Expressiveness/Sounds
6 (1 response)
Reliability
3 (1 response)
Customer Support
1 (1 response)
Overall Rating
6 (1 response)
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