How are the Tyros 3 owners out there getting along with those SA2 control buttons? Are any of you finding them difficult to get used to? Since it's a feature that requires you to remove your left hand from chord triggering.., are any of you finding it difficult to utilize this feature in real-time style play?

Hi Squeak ,

Not hard at all , in fact on some sounds like the Sax you can press an Art button and then a note for the effect.

Other sounds let you take advantage of SA right from the KB itself.

"Guitar Hero" is a blast , you can play a note . hold it and press either Art 1 or 2 and get a super sustain effect either up or down in voicing.

It is really a very expressive KB and it rewards you by triggering a lot of the effects on the fly.

Take care ,

Gary 

Squeak,
Happy new T3 owner here. I'm still getting used to hitting the SA buttons and it could be troublesome with some left hand chord changes. It could be easy to over use the button effects. My approach will be to try to use the buttons sparingly at a convenient time to produce a highlighting effect. Some of the SA effects seem to be triggered by key stroke. Octave note up or down produces a gliss. I hooked up my sustain pedal and reassigned it to the SA1 function. This seems to work pretty well, no hands needed. One can get different effects on some instruments by keying the function once or holding it a bit Still discovering the features and how they work.

JR

I appreciate the different added nuance effects the SA2 button triggered buttons provide, but over my 4 hour afternoon time auditioning and playing Tyros3 live running thru & playing thru my song repetoire of many styles/genres, I felt I was able to achieve indivual instrumental nuances I needed by simply playing the SA2 voices alone (triggering unique instrument emulation via kb velocity & playing techique alone), without regard to the buttons. That to me is the amazing feature of playing SA voices. For live playing, I feel the SA2 buttons an optional thing, as I would probably reserve their use for critical studio work & recording, but that's just me.

Scott

Word is, you can put them onto a multi-button footpedal, so all is not lost...

Good point Diki ! I already forgot I had discovered & posted that in an earlier thread.

Scott

The articulation.IMO, is best controlled from a foot controller. Now here is the problem. Yamaha MFC10 Approx $275.00!
Pa2x EC5 about $100.00.

EC5... five buttons? No controls. $100 http://www.musiciansbuy.com/KORG_EC5.html

Yamaha FC10... Three 7-segment LEDs, 27 LEDs, Panel switches x 5, Function select switch, Foot switches x 12, Foot controller x 1, MIDI IN/WX-IN select switch http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMMFC10

About $300. Sounds like a bargain, in comparison.

I know which I would rather have

You just payed $3500+tax for a T3. And now you are going to worry about a $300 accessory (more a necessity, IMO)?

It probably sounds great through those $200 speakers, too

Diki .. When I owned the T2 I had a MFC10 and it worked great! The price was not an issue with me! Just making a comparison that you can accomplish the same "Function" for less $$ with the EC5.
For me $$ is not an issue when I want something, with in reason of course

I put one on a plane Jane pedal. At first you fell rushed but then you realize you just hit the button and it will wait for you.

It takes some getting used to but after awhile it becomes second nature like control wheels and ribbon sliders when they first came out.

If you are sequencing you can add those later as well as with the PA2x.

The keyboard will do it automatically for you as well.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-23-2008).]

Well the Korg has only five things you can assign. The Yamaha, ten (plus whatever the pedal does), plus there are MORE switch inputs on it and breath controllers, whatever.

Now, for me, first and foremost I've got to have the four variations on the pedal (with Auto fill ON)... so with the Korg, that leaves ONE... And that one is needed for a boatload of functions..

How about Leslie fast/slow?
How about On bass on/off?
Haw about the break/fill?
How about the Piano/Standard mode?

To many choices for one pedal...

Heck even my FC-7 only has seven. I wish I could hook up two or three of them!

That FC10 is a hell of a good thing...

Thats true if you cannot add the controllers one wants later in the sequence on the PC.

Diki what you say is true. I have used foot conrrollers for years, in fact made my own for the Roland! Had the 13 sw pedal for the SD1. For me the switches are all too close togther. In fact on the MFC10 if you hit the 10X button by mistake .. your screwed!
Maybe it's just me but with the PA2x I have finally made up my mind to use other methods to trigger things. Now I use the velocity to trigger the Break/fill and it works great (saves a switch on the FC5) Set Sw 1 for Fill 1 and Sw2 for Fill 2. Sw 3 for the Harmonizer. Use the Joystick for Leslie slow fast. I am saving sw 4 and 5 for Articulation control when OS2 is released. Also I have set it up so Fill 1 advances to variation 2 Fill 2 will advance to variation 3 fill 1 will take me back to Variation 2. It may sound strange to some but it works for me. I like the Yamaha method the best... fill to variation but that is the only plus in my book and not enough for me to give up the PA2x.

That's true if you can't actually PLAY the tune, and have to sequence it entirely!

But all of those assignments are things that someone who actually plays might really need, were they to play the arranger...

Yeah if you are going to play live and need all those control changes immediately you will indeed have some busy feet. I don't play live so for me it's easier to add some of them as controller events later exactly where I want them while correcting the rest of my flubs. Unlike yourself I do make mistakes and occasional clams.

Hate to disillusion you, but I make them all the time. Everybody does. I just don't make making them an excuse to NOT play at full speed. If I find myself making the same mistake twice, THAT'S when I try to work on that skill or passage.

Pushing yourself is how you grow.

I'd like to know if your playing how your foot hits the right buttons on a FC10 if you can't see them below you?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-25-2008).]

If you've used bass pedals at any point in your playing career, then you would know that you don't need to look down after you've used them for a while.

Same for the buttons.

Ian

Although I never used them I would think Bass pedals are much easier ergonomically then tiny buttons.

Different strokes, I guess...I used an MFC10 for some time and had no problems with hitting the right buttons.

I have a buddy who's visually impaired who uses one as well...doesn't seem to be an issue with him either.

If you've been practicing using a blindfold, then using an MFC-10 shouldn't present much of a problem....you'll be surprised how proficient you'll get.

Ian

I use 1 pedal for VH on/off all else is done with split second button finger action on deck, works for me.
How your feet get inbetween all those buttons without "doubling" is beyond me.....but godspeed to whoever enjoys using them it just aint for me..

Is it technically necessary to use an mfc10 for this? Will a couple of simple pedals eg. on/off type not work?

John

Hi John. The MFC10 was more than I needed or wanted to haul around to gigs, so I ended up selling mine. Any on/off type pedal switch will work fine. It's just got to be the momentary 'unlatched' style. Though I use and prefer my self modified 4 pedal Technote controler, I've used and recommend the Boss FS-5U



because it's very compact, lightweight, and rugged, and its interlocking design allows you to chain multiple units together to form a single multi-pedal unit. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-25-2008).]

or try this one....




http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/FS-6/

Keep in mind that some metal pedals, particularly those that physically connect with another pedal, and have a standard 1/4-inch phono jack (TS), will not function properly with some keyboards. This is particularly true with many of the Yamaha PSR series boards that uses a floating ground system. When the two pedals are locked together physically, both footswitch ground connections become a common ground, which causes a polarity problem. However, they work just fine when not physically touching each other.

I'm not sure if this has any effect on the SA button assignment, but it would be worth investigating before investing in expensive pedals.

Cheers,

Gary

Gar . . .thanks for refreshing my distant memory on this. Thinking back again, this is what happened to me upon linking 3 individual Boss FS-5U's units together. Alone they worked fine, but when linked them together, one of the pedals started acting flaky. Now I know why I spent the time & work modifying my Technote 4-pedal Foot Controller to work with my Yamaha arrangers. This said, I retract my original recommendation of linking individual Boss FS-5U's together. - Scott

Earlier in this thread there were a couple of recommendations for use of the Korg EC-5.

Quote: "EC5... five buttons? No controls. $100 http://www.musiciansbuy.com/KORG_EC5.html "

How would it be used with Yamaha keyboards? It doesn't appear to be a midi footswitch and I didn't think there were that many inputs available with the Tyros. If it will work I can think of several alternatives. . .

Bob,

That particular pedal is specifically for Korg boards and there are no provisions for plugging it into any other brand of keyboard.

Gary

If you could reverse the polarity of the switches, the Korg could be used on a Roland G70/E80, if wired correctly into the FC-7 input.

Why you would want to do this beats me, though, when the FC-7 gives you more switches to play with

One area I thank God for my FC-7 is playing the arranger in piano mode... If you are using both hands to play, why ruin a good performance by taking your hands away from the keyboard to make variation changes, fills, breaks, etc.? And play a bunch of jazz tunes, with changes almost every beat, you are hard pressed to get those basic commands in off the buttons and get back to the chord on time. If your arranger has a way to take most of the basic stuff to your feet, give it a try. You might like it

The trouble with the FC10, though is that different arrangers use different codes to do exactly the same thing... It's about time that some standardization of these codes happened, that would make linking two arrangers (more sales... get it, you manufacturers? ) possible, and controlling them from one pedalboard. Yamaha use note numbers for style divisions. Roland use PC#'s, along with CC00/32 codes.

It's enough to make you weep

Thanks Gary. That's what the EC-5 looked like to me. I thought this thread was about using these foot controllers to key the Yamaha SA voices . . . Must have misunderstood.

you were right about the thread topic Bob, but as you are aware most of the recent Synthzone threads seem to take a sharp left turn somewhere along the line.

Good Luck,

Gary

Bob.., we go off topic all the time man Not a problem at all. Some of our discussions are rather funny when you start from the original post then read all the replies.

Glad to hear you guys aren't having any probs with the SA control buttons. It had me curious as to how you guys were using them considering the SA voices themselves react to your playing without the aid of the buttons. I thought some might find it a bit much considering it's another feature that would require you to take your left hand off the board.

No argument here on that....
Pushing yourself is how you grow..and I have a;ways viewed criticism as fertilizer...It may stink but it keeps plants growing.
No argument on that one. I don't play some music at full speed because I would spend more time correcting my mistakes or rerecording part over and over which does help when it comes to growing chops, no dount. But it's a time issue with me. It takes far less time to record it and "fix it in the mix" at the risk and reality of losing one

No argument at all, there.

I edit myself after the fact in the studio all the time. It's a necessity of modern production.. But, subtly, or not so subtly, there's a difference in the phrasing from something played at speed and corrected, and something played slowly and sped up. Lord knows what it is, but there IS something...

If I could simply play as well as I do at full speed, play slower and never make a mistake and keep the same groove, don't you think I would do it? Don't you think EVERYONE would do it? But that's not the way it is done.

And, bottom line is... live, playing with other people (you know, where the magic happens) you CAN'T slow it down. I know you think I'm just digging at you, but I ain't. Honestly... Jamming with other people, playing with other people, making music as an interactive process, is what it is really all about. How few great albums were played by ONE person? Stevie Wonder, maybe! The rest of us? Not so much!

As much as I like arrangers (and I honestly like to use them the same way you do, to knock together quick demos for songwriters. etc., as well as for live use) they are a pale shadow of the interactivity that a true live band has.

You've played in live bands, You can do it now, really (I think). Yeah, the work's sometimes a pain. But when you cook in a live band, there's something that NO arranger can ever hope to compete with... at least, I hope I never see the day that it ever could!

I think you have simply let yourself forget you COULD cook. If you could play all the Santana stuff live, what CAN'T you play that you would need to, live? Pop's not exactly rocket science, unless you are trying to pull a Steely Dan....

I simply think that we are talking at cross purposes. I'm not CRITICIZING you.... I am merely exhorting you, who I think COULD pull off the live thing, to go back to trying it. It's easier than you think...

I have nothing but envy for your voice... but I don't think you would ever go "I have to slow down my singing to make it work, and Auto-tune the crap out of it" and I ALSO think that, with SO little work, you could play live whatever the hell you felt like.

All I would like to see is you rediscover the faith in your own playing, and push yourself to go back to 'real time', which is where all the 'live' players play. Step time, slowed down 'realtime', actual speed... It doesn't make THAT much difference in the studio. But there's a big wide world of wonderful music outside the studio doors, where interactivity, and the magic of melding disparate individuals into a musical 'whole' that dwarfs the sum of it's parts is where great music can often be made....

Give YOURSELF more credit. You deserve it

You sound kind of like my wife who is begging me to do a duo. I tell her I just don;t feel my playing is up to the standards I would feel comfortable being paid for. Also I have been spoiled a bit having worked for years in front of paying audiences and being a part of something bigger rather than being the whole show.

I lost those B3 Santana chops a long time ago. When I try to play the organ solo in Evil Ways today, It is a mess. I have lost it and I am not sure I want spend the time it would take to get those muscles back where thy were 30 years ago.

Its like my studio used to be. I had 120 patch points 7 modules,two keyboards, 32 channel Mackie board, wire, wires wires, everything ontp a patch bay, none of it pro level as in Hosa...Many times I would sit down to get creative and before you know it I would be fishing around the back for an open cable or bad jack. My creativity out the window trying to fix a technical issue...

I have since sold everything and am now down to two boards and an interface. NO more technical issues. The Tyros is the band. The RD700 is the weighted stuff. Done.

I agree there is nothing like a real band with REAL players, No one knows that more than mw who never like to use tracks like other acts when I was on the road. All live,,can ad a chorus, recover from a trainwreck, make endings huge or not depending on the response.

In the studio the Tyros is the band. The next best thing to real players as I am not a bass player, drummer etc and the Arrangers are the closest thing to real players although no substitute. The "CD" quality so many hate about the Yamaha is what I like because that makes it sound more polished and slick (like the worst over produced over compressed CDs LOL.) But covers for the lack of a real band better than I can with 100 modules and 10 fingers.

In any case I hoping the general listener is listening to the song not the band. Its like background music in a movie. Or lighting in a show, If either becomes the focus of attention it is not doing its job to ENHANCE what should be the primary focus not take over.