Thought I would start this thread AGAIN with my fingers crossed that we stay on topic & that that Obama & McCain & Bush dont get involved in the hijacking
Just new owners first hand opinions on what they don't like & what they would like to change & why please.

Thanks

I have not found anything I don't like yet. It's doing exactly what I need it to do.
But the Honeymoon isn't over yet. Try again in 4 months.

kingfrog keep us posted everyone has different needs.

I believe McCain will purchase a Tyros3 after he wins the election...

Obama will most likely purchase an S900..

This thread is as boring as the Presidential race

Donny I think you are being a child and just want people to write exactly what you want to hear like:

- no TC helicon harmonizer
- no mp3 playback
- no dual midi control
- no punchy in youir face drums
bla bla bla

go and enjoy the keyboard you have cos its probably gonna be replaced in a few days by something else that will only get used to about 10% of its potential...

If only it were over so soon

Actually everyone has the same needs. They just have a different interpetation of those needs. All keyboards make music their owners expect and consider the best.

Thanks Donny, it was getting irksome to keep going back to that thread whenever a new posting alert appeared, only to find postings were STILL about USA politics....

It is an interesting thread (sans politics) so its good to keep it going.

Dennis

I beg to differ... (but it's nothing to do with McCain/Obama )

Those who actually PLAY the keyboard, rather than use it in a non-realtime fashion, have considerably different needs, IMO.

Or am I just interpreting those needs differently?

No, Diki I do not believe you are, imo.

I agree, real-time (read live) performers, have different needs in a keyboard to a keyboard used totally within the studio.

Dennis

PS: by "live" I mean play to an audience, it was not meant to be about what people use or play or how they play it.

WHAT I DON'T LIKE:

- Pathetic drums (understatement of the year)
- Overall sound lacks punch
- Very small upgrade compared to the T2
- 8 sliders are not assignable, and the one that is cannot be assigned to the kind of things I'd like.
- No mp3 compatability
- Not enough USER memory (although granted on the T3 the Harddisk is much faster than the T2 so its less of a problem.)

WHAT I DO LIKE:

- The new sax, clarinet and trumpet are great sounds even without the 2 SA buttons. Yamaha finally made sounds that stand out in the mix. (Unlike their drums...)

[This message has been edited by chony (edited 10-30-2008).]

Well now take a lesson from Chony he knows how to play this game for sure

It has 76 keys ?

Next to that, there is no innovation in the Tyros line, only improvement.

Still waiting to get my gnarled fingers on the T3, then, and only then, can I assess the good, the bad and the ugly about the keyboard. Hopefully, this will happen next week.

From all the posts by owners I've read, the vast majority are very happy with the T3 and it's many features. Most of the negative posts I've read have been by NON-Tyros3 owners, and in most instances individuals that have never seen, touched, played or even heard anything other than the website demos. From MY perspective, it's nearly impossible to assess anything by what you hear or see on a website--including this one.

Cheers,

Gary

Donny: There are some new features about Tyros3 I like (sliders, USB2.0, and a few new SA2 voices), but to answer 'your question', coming from a Tyros2 owner who had the opportunity to play a Tyro3 for nearly an entire day in a friend's studio, there were two things I didn't like:

1) T3's Reg Buttons (1-8) are located in the upper octave area of keyboard, making them convienently accessible only with the right hand. Tyros2's Reg buttons (1-8) on the other hand are easily accessed from either right OR left hand because they're located in the Center of the keyboard directly underneath the LCD Screen.

2) LCD Screen: No Brightness/Contrast Control

All said and done, I'm not convinced the upgrade is worth it to me + the custom reg/style song repetoire (1,200+ songs) conversion work (time=$) it would require. I still love playing my Tyros2 afterall.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-31-2008).]

Gary, if you want my opinion - and I was a T2 and now a T3 owner --

it's not much of an upgrade at all. If you have a T2 already, you will essentially be paying for a couple of sounds. The sliders and new FX do not make much of a difference.

I've heard people say that the T3 sounds much better than the T2 ... don't know where they're coming from ... and I've got pretty good ears.

Try before you buy.

On the other hand knowing both and having had a PA2x for four months,IMO,the T3 is a huge upgrade. There are 200 Plus more voices of every type Cool,Live,Sweet etc. The sliders make a huge difference when playing the organ flutes, and mixing sequences.

The screen is the same as the Fantoms. It can be easily viewed from any angle.

The revamped EFX engine allowing 5 efx per style is a major sound difference only those with tin ears could not hear.

The expandability with Voice Packs makes the keyboard open ended which again is another great addition.

The ergonomics of the multi pads on the left is arguably better.

You really should first go to both the T2 and T3 website and compare them on paper. Then play it yourself. You are right in that most of those who did purchase the T3 by a huge margin are happy with their choice. For many their expectations were met and exceeded. For others,. they will still be searching for the Holy Grail.

Yamaha is the company everyone loves to hate but is still the standard others are compared to.

That said this is NOT a OMB line out to the amp keyboard without a mixer and Harmonizer. The mike pre amp is terrible as all arranger mike pre amps. The Harmonizer is not something I would use, (The Korg's was slightly better , (but still older gen TC Helicon technology) But those are the weakest areas of both Arrangers I owned.

The Korg is a better OMB Arranger in many aspects IF you prefer the Korg voices handsdown. I cannot speak for the Roland G70 except they are a bargain used when you can find one on Ebay.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-31-2008).]

Dup



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-31-2008).]

It's amazing that we have such different opinions from two great Pro players & another going in the total opposite direction on the T3...what gives?

And you've managed to basically ignore all the ones by T2>T3 movers that say it ISN'T the Great Leap Forward, or pretend they don't exist

How about acknowledging these knowledgeable posters, and discussing THEIR point of view, rather than just poo-pooing everyone that doesn't share your just as theoretical viewpoint (seeing as how YOU haven't got your hands on one yet, either)?

I mean, here's one on this thread alone, but do you engage him? Kingfrog chooses to leap over the issue and start talking about PA2X vs. T3, rather than talk to the guy that posts something you'd maybe rather not acknowledge...

It's all very well to bait those talking the issue based on demos and specs, but here's someone with DIRECT T2>T3 experience. He's not saying what you want to hear, so you IGNORE HIM?

I think the main difference is that Kingfrog uses the organ and the sliders I guess would make a big difference to him. I on the other hand hardly ever need the organ.

He says that I have tin ears because I don't hear that the T3 is much better ... Don't know what to tell you. I am one of the few people on this forum who actually makes a living using my ears. I've mixed and mastered hundreds of productions and I believe that there is not much of a difference between the T2 and T3.

Hi

The most important improvement when comparing T2 and T3 is that the T3 has a more dynamic overall sound. It's a big step forward.

Niels

Niels, is it more dynamic, or did they actually use a compressor to make it stand out more...If it is the latter I would think it has less dynamics..What are your thoughts?

And you've managed to basically ignore all the ones by T2>T3 movers that say it ISN'T the Great Leap Forward, or pretend they don't exist

How about acknowledging these knowledgeable posters, and discussing THEIR point of view, rather than just poo-pooing everyone that doesn't share your just as theoretical viewpoint (seeing as how YOU haven't got your hands on one yet, either)?

Diki, I'm not ignoring posts by T2 users who upgraded to a T3 at all. In fact, I value their input highly, mainly because they've played the keyboard and provided FIRST HAND INFORMATION. As for MY viewpoint, at this stage of the game I don't have one. As stated, I HAVE NOT played the keyboard as yet, therefore, it is virtually impossible for me, or anyone else in the same category, to provide any viewpoint, theoretical or otherwise. However, there seem to be lots of self-proclaimed experts that DO NOT HAVE ANY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE ON THE T3 AT ALL! When I do manage to get my gnarled fingers on the T3, then and only then, will I post MY evaluation of the keyboard--not before.

And, keep in mind that for me the upgrade would be from a PSR-3000 to a T3, which is a major upgrade. It's also a major expenditure, which I'm not I want to commit to at this time.

One of the primary reasons I still visit this forum on a regular basis is that once in a while you can garner valuable product information from those that have taken the time to explore all the features of new equipment, and additionally, taken time to post it. The problem is, which was readily seen on the previous thread about the same subject, the thread is hijacked and becomes somewhat meaningless. Hopefully, this will not be the case with this thread.

Cheers,

Gary

If you're upgrading from the 3000, you'll love it.
If you're upgrading from the T2, you won't be too inspired...

I just don't get the guys who say that the T3 has an overall better sound. I performed at 4 weddings this week with it, and didn't feel much of a difference...

Hi Fran

The dynamic sound Im talking about is without the compressor turn on. The T3 sound more live and not like the T2's boring CD sound. For the first time im realy enjoying playing a Yamaha arranger.

Niels

Actually, Kingfrog has acknowledged that he doesn't really PLAY the arranger at all, at least not in the sense that most of us here do...

He uses it in a non-realtime fashion, to write songs on. He doesn't play it out live anywhere (whether to an audience or not!) and says he couldn't play the old organ parts he USED to play many years ago, because it would be too much work to get his chops back.

So, all in all, a VERY different way of using an arranger to the large majority here. As to his 'ears' and his opinion about the rest of our complete lack of them, well, that's for you to judge based on either work shown, or general attitude.

Personally, I want advice about whether a car is any good, I take it from the man who gets his out of first gear, from time to time

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-31-2008).]

I called Guitar Center recently and they said that the Tyros3 is only going to be through "special order" and therefore they won't be handling it in their stores until #1: The economy improves and people can actually afford to buy a 4 Grand item in mass OR #2: Yamaha backpedals on their orginal decision.

I wasn't going to buy one anyway but I sure would've liked to have played one to better distinguish between the similarities versus how it is diverse when comparing it to the T2. I think Yamaha is on the right track in that they are "slowly" evolving their sound technology and other sound enhancements and features for their totl arrangers. All they really need in a T4 is a 76 key version/better Drum kit sounds/real Sampler/longer throw physical drawbars - and I would buy one in a minute. Leave those things off and Yamaha has just lost a future T4 buyer. As if they care right?

BTW, I bet the Tyros 3 can't do this?:

Roland Fantom G7 Demo

>> It is in the French language (Parlez-vous français? ) but what emanates from the keyboard is the important thing. It is also important to try and listen to the whole thing if you can. >> PS: I'm not trying to hijack the thread, so the demo is only meant for the curious at heart and is intended only as a comparison to the T3 regarding sounds and 'accompaniment'.


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-31-2008).]

I listened (to the whole thing), I liked, I'm going down to GC tomorrow. Is there a clue in there why MOST pro's use sampling WORKSTATIONS. Just asking.

chas

Most pros don't work as OMB's, I guess...

They play in bands, or do studio work. Neither need the Auto accompaniment of the type that is current in arrangers, and what accompaniment they DO use is more loop and arpeggiator based, which is a LOT more current in flava...

For whatever marketing reason they have managed to self-manufacture, all of the arranger manufacturers have drawn a line in the sand, and adamantly REFUSED to voice an arranger as contemporarily as their WS line. This is slowly sounding the death knell for the arranger divisions, as few younger players or professionals with contemporary tastes are able to use them, despite their many advantages in live operation from WS's.

Sad, really...

Whats sad Diki is that LIVE Playing will be a thing of the past....in the future there will be no need to manually play anything....music will all be computerized worse then it is now & you will only make music with your mouse & software.

Great Roland demo....


WOW!!!

Yep, that Fantom G demo rocks! I've only recently purchased (and began experimenting with) a G70. I still primarily play on workstations. One of these days, I will bring the G70 out to a show. I fully agree, however, that if manufacturers really want to sell their arrangers, they need to make them more adaptable to rock/modern/alternative music.

First of all I do not believe technical prowess means anything when answering questions about the sound of a keyboard. Someone who doesn't play a note can hear the differences and decide which they like better. One does not have to be a professional Nascar driver to pick out a car they enjoy driving.


DIKI is right I do not PERFORM with the keyboard. I only use it for studio work. My wife does perform with the recordings she makes from it minus some parts she plays live and finds it more than adequate and a lot easier to use out of the box than the Korg was.

Yes I like the sliders for what they are intended for and consider this a major upgrade from the T2 Others mileage may vary here.

The only thing I don;t care to much for is it's MIDI implementation. It works differently when used as a workstation than the Korg. But the voices are worth the workaround I'm still trying to get a handle on for me. I USE styles. But I knew that going in. It's NOT a workstation. I originally bought the Korg PA2x because it did perform as a workstation, But I did not care for the voices as compared to the then T2.

AS far as the new pro boards are concerned. I do not want to string together a bunch of loops on a keyboard. I have the capability with Software and thousands of loops already on various hard drives.

I don;t need the recording or sampling features as again I already have those capabilities using software samplers and VST plug ins. I have much more processing power and open ended sampling with plug ins than any keyboard can deliver.Buying a Fantom or Motif would be redundant for me in may areas for Studio use. If you use instrument plugs ins you will understand the capabilities exceed many Pro Keyboards on many levels.

However The only SW capabilities for arrangements in software is Band in the Box. Been there done it. So I come back around to Yamaha because of the library and I do like the sound of the board. They compliment what I already have and when in the sequencer I can replace any voices I care to with Plug in synths and samplers. YMMV.

I want arrangements. Lots of them. Yamaha has the most complete library of Arrangements by far and they are immediately accessible without getting up directly from the Internet Direct Connect LAN. Yeah they cost a few dollars each BUT they are a lot less expensive and far less hassle than hiring musicians...ya think? I mean you can clearly see what a Pain in the arse highly opinionated "pro musicians" can be right here on these forums. Imagine having to work with some of them. YIKES!!




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-01-2008).]

Originally posted by Kingfrog:



Your first sentence is not quite accurate Kingfrog.

Here is a comparison between the Tyros3 and the Fantom G display:

Yamaha Tyros3 = 640 x 480 dots TFT VGA color 7.5 inch LCD

VERSUS..

Roland Fantom G = Graphic Type, 8.5inch, TFT Wide VGA(800 x 480 dots), backlit LCD (Color)

As you can see the Fantom G graphic display is both "larger" and has a "higher" resolution than the Tyros3 display. Also, even though the Fantom G doesn't have a contrast knob either, there is a setting within the Fantom G System/Menu that provides an adjustment of the displays background image(s).

It has also been stated that the Tyros3 display still can NOT be seen properly in full sunlight which was the same type of problem we had with the Tyros2/1. OTOH, I have played my Fantom G7 in direct sunlight and while it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences the LCD screen actually could be seen well enough to make my way around the GUI in an acceptable manner. It does take some getting use to though. One day I hope all manufacturers will opt for either super twist technology in their displays or something similar that would, once and for all, make viewing a keyboard's LCD in direct sunlight a non-issue. I think the Roland Fantom G LCD is a step in that direction but not a total solution, such as super twist technology, etc. - would be.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-01-2008).]

Oh.., one thing I wanted to mention to "chas" if and when you demo the Fantom G.

Realize chas, that you won't be able to replicate what the french demonstrator was able to achieve with the Fantom G, because you'll have neither the time nor the necessary equipment on hand to do so. What you WILL be able to determine and do with the Fantom G is be able to play the 'Preset' patches, investigate the Sequencer/Studio/Song/Live/Single Modes and delve into the OS User interface to determine if the Fantom G fits your needs. There is expansion on the Fantom G by way of ARX Expansion cards i.e. "Actual full 'Synth' capability on separate ARX Card with its own DSP, Processor(s), etc.", but more than likely the Fantom G you play will NOT have any ARX cards installed.

Make sure you bring a pair of good Cans with you so as to isolate some of the other noise you'll hear throughout the store - like blaring guitars for one.

>> Just wanted to mention that to you so you stay realistic in your expectations after having viewed the French Fantom G demonstrator - who had demonstrated Sampling and had also used some Custom patches during the demo. >> Custom patches can be done by anyone using a Fantom G of course, and patches edited entirely on the Fantom G itself if preferred, or done using the freely included Fantom G Editor software.

Creating Custom patches can sometimes be a rather time consuming task, especially if you haven't fully acquainted yourself with the Fantom G beforehand.

Best,
Mike

One thing further I'd like to say about the T3 is from what I HAVE heard of the sounds (minus Drum kits of course ) is that there are some extremely good Voices on the T3, among them the SA2 Clarinet, SA2 Breathy Sax, and the SingleCoil Guitar. I'm sure there are a multitude of other great sounding voices too. What I would have liked Yamaha to have done is to have included some SA2 Guitars, SA2 Strings, SA2 Brass, SA2 Organs, and some SA/2 Choir and Scat Voices on the Tyros3 as well. The SA2 offering currently on the T3, although in most cases delectable sounding, are few and far between and in some instances are just variations of the same PCM .wav form as we now all know. What I can say though is since SA2 was probably implemented at a later stage on the production of the T3, that most likely the next model e.g. T4 {or whatever they decide to call it } should have many, many more SA2 Voices to choose from (even if many of them use the same .wav form like on the T3 ). So I look forward to the next Yamaha totl arranger which will also hopefully include a 76 key version too. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen though.

Best,
Mike

What makes the T2 new voices sound so good is not that they are SA2 capable. It is that they are actually good sounds. I am sure that they had a different engineer recording them than they had recording the T2 sounds, because they sound completely different. Full of body and expression.

If the next Tyros uses old .wav samples, that would be a step backwards. What attracts me to the new sounds are not the gimmicks but the sounds themselves...

Only exceeded by 'pain in the arse' karaoke singers, IMO...

You might consider that a LARGE percentage of players on this forum are 'pro'. I'm sure your opinionated viewpoint as a non-player is sitting VERY nicely in their regard for you...

Sure, a drunk off the street probably has an opinion about the 'sound' of one arranger over another, but most of us PLAY the damn things, and, to be honest, those are the opinions that show value... for me, anyway.

Perhaps we could meet on a forum for professional singers, where my opinion that you are a jackass could be backed up by the fact that maybe I don't sing very well, and punch in and Auto-Tune every thing I do... That would give me about as much right to ridicule you as you have here...

Still stuck in first? Better get the wife to drive...

LOL That "Drunk on the Street" is your bread and butter in those clubs....

DIKI I am more than sure I have performed front of far more people for far longer time for a ton more money with the best live bands for 12 years in venues that sat far more than 300 people then you will ever see. That may be why you are so bitter. Your "time" has passed you by. YOu want respect like the OMB Dick Van Dyke character in the opening of Mary Poppins

Writing for is a "hobby a, pass time" I recorded my CDs and sold them while on the road in hotels in Singapore, Diego Garcia or Berlin and a variety of other Casino Showrooms in every city that has them, As well as 5000 seat Amphitheaters for paying audiences all facing forward enjoying the show they paid $40+ for. Hell I made $4000 doing three songs in Japan on the Millenium all expenses paid to sing four songs with a cast and crew of 23 people.I just turned down a Gig in San Diego for this New Years eve, I'm over it. Planes and Hotels

Yeah I played the guitar and sang Sweet Caroline and America a 100,000 times and enjoyed every moment. It was the 32 hours and 30 minutes I dreaded I wasn't home.

I'm sorry man, I just don't consider a OMB Arranger player as much more than glorified albeit PROFESSIONAL Karaoke singer. Hell the keyboards even have little bouncing balls and Lyrics!!! I have no doubt I have play with more live musicians who could play circles around many OMB "Artists."

These are ARRANGER keyboards!! Really think about it HARD... IN my travels I never even heard of Arranger keyboard till I started selling them. IF it had speakers it was a toy. But for me they are a Godsend. But not something I would show up at a gig with. That's just me. My version of gig is miles apart from yours. $300 + Tips won;t cut it for me for four hours of singing to tracks and playing some right hand leads.

I come from a different place than most here. The Arranger is a HOME keyboard like YAmaha's research claims most buyer are. Home users and Studios. The bulk of their buyers are not asking for 76 keys.

Doing singles ia a job not a career and for many it's a wonderful way to make a few dollars and obviously there is a market. So those who Love it and their venues I say good for you. Enjoy every moment, I can see many are very happy playing and very charitable as well. Kudos. to those who have no illusions and are happy doing what they want. You obviosly are not.

You, my friend are just bitter, Every post reaks of seeking credibility. Credible people are happy and encourage others to enjoy their keyboards. I LOVE the Yamaha T3. Its far better than the T2 (IMO)we had in the store. I bought the Korg as a tryout. I knew I would lose $400+ if I did not like it but that was a risk I could take.

When I figure out the MIDI implementation on the T3 with Sonar 8 and with the NI and VST synths IM a happy camper.

BUt hey this is your world. You are the "expert" the virtuoso on your four year old G70 and your claims of "mastering" hours of CDS seemed suspect to me when you did not even know what "reference monitors" really are. Wasn't it you that questioned my Monitor Ones? That revealed a lot about your "expertise" in the recording domain.

I don't care if you can sing or not. Thats your problem. IF you can't you had better play your ass off and from what you say you can......so why so bitter. ENJOY....

Talk to me when you "retire" at 53 with zero debt and the ability to buy any or all keyboards on the market without blinking an eye for cash. With money made performing more than local bars, Bingo parties and backyard weddings. YEah I made my bones as a performer in front of live bands who sometimes had to read down 7 piece charts they saw for the first time at 3PM for an 8 PM show., Which is Karaoke...I suppose in your world.

BTW My wife soes drive. She loves playing in clubs, But she PLAYS both the guitar and an 88 key weighted boards using some tracks. She won;t go out with the Tyros only. I respect her for that.



This was our roaD RIG








[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-02-2008).]

Wealth is relative. As Chris Rock once said, "if Bill Gates had Ophra's money, he'd probably kill himself" (and she's worth nearly 3 billion).

I'm suprised someone hasn't already pointed out to you that if you're posting here on a regular basis, you're probably neither rich nor famous (or married to anyone rich or famous).

chas

Wow Im loving this... when I asked for No Politics I was well rewarded with the best "My Gig is Better Then Your Gig" in a long long time Who knew?

BTW great Pics..

Kingfrog, your last post tells me a lot about you...and I am not referring to your accomplishments..

Your attitude about arrangers..justifies the reason the Tyros sits in the store you "work"..

As you said ..you never even heard of arranger keyboards till you started to work in the store..justifies..total ignorance the so called "pro" players have..

How can you possibly be successful in selling Tyros or any other arranger product..You do not have the know how..this shows from your own words..

As for being debt free and I guess having it made.. ..Did I understand you work at a music store...and.. you don't actually own a music store as many of us here...

Knowing products, and actually liking the products we sell ..is the only way..you can sell that lonely Yamaha arranger sitting on the shelf..

This is all to common in the industry...Thankfully there are a few good arranger sales people....One in Californian...One in Connecticut..and maybe one in Maryland....


PS: I too ..find myself debt free..


Also listen to some of the folks that play arrangers professionally here at Synth Zone...Glorified Karaoke players statements won't keep you in favour her..

Uncle Dave, DonM, DNJ, Songman55...just to name a few..These are guys that are as successful as they want to be..

Maybe you didn't mean to come off as your words spoke..

Yep, that's pretty much what I expected from you, Kingfrog...

Nobody gives a damn what you USED to do, especially as it wasn't playing (there are karaoke singer forums where you would be GOD! Which is what I feel you need, from what you post).

A washed up, retired, has been imitator of another, far more successful singer is EXACTLY who needs to come here and tell us (from his perspective of being unable to play) what our mistake is in not choosing the same equipment as him!

As I said, were I to beard you in your den, say a singer's forum, and admit I couldn't sing, needed Auto-Tune on everything, and had to punch in on every line, I don't think you would be particularly impressed, no matter HOW well I played keyboards, or who I played with (my list of credits includes many of the industry's greats). And if I verbally abused you while still admitting I couldn't sing, your patience would run extremely thin.

Mine has run out.

In future, I will not be responding to anything you post. I hope that you have the class to not take this as an opportunity to shoot me in the back, but, well, let's just see...

Frank I respect those who play and sing their heart outs as back ground music. My wife does that very thing. I just feel DIKI is a bitter guy who feels he is entitled to have been more of a success evidence by his many caustic posts on every subject and aggrandizing his skills and experience. He is the "know it all type" we all know and love. Apparently not getting the "respect" he feels he deserves. I feel bad for him.

I wanted to be a big star and rich some time ago. I worked for IATSE for three years out of school with touring rock shows as a truck loader. I saw first hand what its like up close what big acts get when they hit the stage, I wanted to be that but I was lazy.

I got a regular corporate job and I gave that up at 40 and just went with the flow doing friggin Neil Diamond...(I wanted to be Billy Joel) which was LAUGHABLE and believe me I put up with more jokes and public criticism than you could know. I also tasted the gourmet of the other adoring side. All for something I was not. Maybe I feel the same way about Arranger performers. who knows. That paid for my house and the Las Vegas housing bubble paid for my "retirement".

We are not rich. We are totally debt free. That may be rich today who knows. Our "Lexus" is in the bank. We still have to work. We just don't need to earn more than $1600 a month. I was offered $150 to host a Karaoke show once a week and I'm going to take it. Because Its fun and I totally enjoy watching people get up and sing publicly ,some for the first time, others revealing a repressed talent they have. The wife HATES Karaoke (because it takes work from real musicians) but thats "progress". Buggy Whips and all that.

I am learning that there are far more people earning a living with these arranger keyboards than I would have guessed. Just not here. I lived in LAs Vegas 15 years and never saw a single act with an Arranger keyboard. Always 88 keys. I don't see them here. This a very "new" concept to me. I learned about them first a couple years ago when I got off the road and started working for a Yamaha dealer in a huge MI store.I LOVED them. I sell more Bose PA Systems than Tyros. This is not a huge Arranger market considering its huge market for singles and duos, I wonder why. The owner is Acoustic piano oriented and did not even carry a Tyros until I bought mine. Just PSRs and recently the Korg PA50 which sold in a week.
He sells enough guitars, amps, PA, Sheet Music. He will put 300 guitars on the walls but won't carry pro keyboards like the Motif. When you compete against the Internet you become a demo house for them. Not so much the home stuff.

Yamaha's own research on the buyers of the Tyros going way back says they sell far more Arrangers to HOME users and STUDIOS hence their hesitance to make a 76 key Tyros. So those who play out using arrangers are few in the scheme of singles and duos according to their research. I have Never seen anyone playing out with one.

Now How can I sell them? EASY I sell them as a songwriting tool and sell them to small churches that don't have the room for a piano and organ and cannot afford the Clavinova they really want. Many ethnic latin folk buy the S900s. Never sold one to a pro player for use on a gig. Demoed them but they still have the toy stigma if they have speakers. and the Tyros is $500 more than the Motif X8.

My wife has been here 30 plus years playing for a living and knows everyone. No one on the "circuit: plays with an Arranger keyboard on a gig. That's why I have been extremely ignorant on them being used in that regard more than should and I wholly apologize for offending anyone who does. Especially those who play for those in nursing homes and charitable efforts. But unlike DIKI I do not need to be revered here and I will speak my mind and hope everyone knows it's only one person's opinion.

When you dress up in beads and sequin shirts with bad hair and sing Cracklin Rose for 12 years you understand the concept of not taking one person's opinion seriously, or you shrink up and die......all the way to the bank.

Look at me in the eyes.....
Bitter? Washed up? What exactly is that? Imitator..Yep. It wasn't my dream but it tool me places few performers will ever see, I played for crowds people like you dream of. Playing with musicians who could probably play circles around you. I Understand your bitterness and am not offended by it. I have put up with a lot worse (imagine that).

I am impressed with ANYONE who can earn a living playing music no matter what they use in that regard. I am not impressed with some who is constantly dissing those who post opposing opinion. There are one or two of you guys on every forum. You see, you have no idea how well I play. I may play far better then I will admit. The wife thinks so. I am a humble person. I have much higher standards of a PLAYER Because I worked with the BEST players. People come into the store I demo a keyboard and they think I'm a pianist....LOL. It's all relative. Try humility sometime you might like it and have more friends. Who else would admit to earning a living imitating someone else. I don;t find that as much of a stretch as An Arranger player imitating a whole band. Ya think?

You are right on both counts,,I never claimed I was either......however I don't think the Internet is reserved only for those who are not financially comfortable and one who is famous would have no logical reason to make that known.

double post

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-02-2008).]

Nice photos Kingfrog, thanks for posting

Great pics Kingfrog

You also have a beautiful wife that shares your passion - how great

Reading this Kingfrog.....I would like to know what all the OMB acts are using to perform in your area if not an Arranger KB?

Thanks

This certainly has to be the worst posted thread I have ever read on the SZ. Pure rubbish & helps no one at all. What is the point of all this hogwash? Can't we just stay on topic so people can come away with something meaningful, this is so childish for grown people to act like this.

They are using guitars and workstations with built in sequencers and from what I see and my wife as well tracks/live drum machines and kick left handed bass. My wife uses tracks she records using the keyboards we had (PA2x) and the Tyros. She feels people are generally not aware of Arrangers and their possibilities in live use. (except the Latinos). She also feels as a pianist she feels obligated and wants to play 88 weighted keys. She does not feel she would lose any work if she took out the Tyros. Buts she is more comfortable playing 88 against a track. She does not like to play unweighted keyboards.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-03-2008).]

I usually don't stand on my head playing my keyboard, nor do I stand next to it. So that viewing angle is no plus to me. Besides, my E-80 screen and the Tyros 2 screen I've seen offer very good view at the angle you're supposed to look at it: while playing the thing.



I doubt if anyone will notice the difference between 4 or 5 FX processors.



Yamaha should be ashamed that this is the first TOTL arranger that allows owners to expand the voices.



...they moved other buttons to the right side of the board, making them harder to use, especially for upgraders from Tyros2 who are used to having those buttons on the left and center.



You really believe that, don't you?

Oh and about your rant about how Good you are and how much Money you made and how you piss on everyone that thinks an arranger can be used for performing:

It's pathetic.

Spare me the pictures of a wanna-be Neil Diamond, and 'your'(?) "road rig". I could go around posting pictures of Wisseloord Studios (and if you ARE that well-informed about recording, you know what that is) just because I've spent quite some time there recording. But I won't. I would feel very childish, trying to prove something nobody asked me to prove. And in your case, it back-fired enormously.


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- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM http://www.keyboardforum.nl

[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 11-03-2008).]

She is my passion and begs me to form a duo everyday. I told her if Im going to go back into the live business Im going back to the NEil thing. The guy is nearly 70 and is still selling out AREANA... I could do that for a long time. The problem for me is I feel everything I sing sounds like NEil's Rendition and I can tell you first hand I have heard his renditions of other's songs and it doesn't "fit" He does not have a generic and adaptable voice.

The converse is true as well. Even Elvis singing Sweet Caroline sounds odd. Neils voice is so connected with his songs and disconnected as a "generic voice" that can cover anything well,

I started by accident in a Karaoke bar. No one wanted to hear me do anything but Neil. I am afraid that will be case if I do a duo with her ....for far less money. She does well enough on her own. She don;t need me. Im glad to help her with the tracks and step in for a few songs in her sets now and then..

GO ahead post your accomplishments. Don't be embarrassed in your attempts at humility. I won't be offended as you apparently are. (BTW what and who is Wisseloord Studios?) Guess your right I'm not well informed.....And? But yes I am proud of what I was able to do with nothing....and I'm am proud of my wife who is a real musician who is not bitter about not achieving the "dream"...but yet living it every day anyway.

Wow lots of bitter people around here willing to share their contempt.

BTW you actually proved my point about Yamaha being the company everyone loves to hate....Amazing post young man.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-03-2008).]

So I would assume playing against mp3 or smf tracks in a big entertainment town like Vegas is totally accepted unlike the belief here on SZ to the contrary that musicians are lowering themselves by using them in their acts... NOT!. And I am sure the audiences love them also. It must be cool living there seeing so many different acts all the time.

Good luck to you

I left Vegas 3 years ago. I moved there from San Diego. ( I hated California even more). I found Vegas very heartless. No soul. The town has nothing real. It's an illusion. The music is now canned for the most part in many of the major shows. The lounges are full of either Karaoke, Huge DJ clubs or lounge bands. Not too many single performers. When you see them they are playing a piano and doing light jazz vocals. Karaoke is the king of the small lounges and clubs there. It's cheap and gives people a chance to say they "performed in Vegas" I guess. LOL.
I spent 15 years there because I was based out of there and worked there in a production show which had others around the country and places abroad.

When the housing bubble hit I was more than happy to take the money and run.......

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-03-2008).]

Hi all,
I have been playing he Tyros 3 for a couple of hours now and from what I can tell the over all sound is much better. Better rverb compared to the older models, the stereo image is much better. If I listen to Tyros2 demos I can hear the difference. The piano sound is much better so to me you are not paying for just a few sounds.

There is one person here who bought it just for a few sounds though and believes he rest is no better than the T2. Chony. Only Yamaha can actually sell a $3000+ keyboard to someone for only 5 new sounds......Amazing.