Only exceeded by 'pain in the arse' karaoke singers, IMO...

You might consider that a LARGE percentage of players on this forum are 'pro'. I'm sure your opinionated viewpoint as a non-player is sitting VERY nicely in their regard for you...

Sure, a drunk off the street probably has an opinion about the 'sound' of one arranger over another, but most of us PLAY the damn things, and, to be honest, those are the opinions that show value... for me, anyway.

Perhaps we could meet on a forum for professional singers, where my opinion that you are a jackass could be backed up by the fact that maybe I don't sing very well, and punch in and Auto-Tune every thing I do... That would give me about as much right to ridicule you as you have here...

Still stuck in first? Better get the wife to drive...

LOL That "Drunk on the Street" is your bread and butter in those clubs....

DIKI I am more than sure I have performed front of far more people for far longer time for a ton more money with the best live bands for 12 years in venues that sat far more than 300 people then you will ever see. That may be why you are so bitter. Your "time" has passed you by. YOu want respect like the OMB Dick Van Dyke character in the opening of Mary Poppins

Writing for is a "hobby a, pass time" I recorded my CDs and sold them while on the road in hotels in Singapore, Diego Garcia or Berlin and a variety of other Casino Showrooms in every city that has them, As well as 5000 seat Amphitheaters for paying audiences all facing forward enjoying the show they paid $40+ for. Hell I made $4000 doing three songs in Japan on the Millenium all expenses paid to sing four songs with a cast and crew of 23 people.I just turned down a Gig in San Diego for this New Years eve, I'm over it. Planes and Hotels

Yeah I played the guitar and sang Sweet Caroline and America a 100,000 times and enjoyed every moment. It was the 32 hours and 30 minutes I dreaded I wasn't home.

I'm sorry man, I just don't consider a OMB Arranger player as much more than glorified albeit PROFESSIONAL Karaoke singer. Hell the keyboards even have little bouncing balls and Lyrics!!! I have no doubt I have play with more live musicians who could play circles around many OMB "Artists."

These are ARRANGER keyboards!! Really think about it HARD... IN my travels I never even heard of Arranger keyboard till I started selling them. IF it had speakers it was a toy. But for me they are a Godsend. But not something I would show up at a gig with. That's just me. My version of gig is miles apart from yours. $300 + Tips won;t cut it for me for four hours of singing to tracks and playing some right hand leads.

I come from a different place than most here. The Arranger is a HOME keyboard like YAmaha's research claims most buyer are. Home users and Studios. The bulk of their buyers are not asking for 76 keys.

Doing singles ia a job not a career and for many it's a wonderful way to make a few dollars and obviously there is a market. So those who Love it and their venues I say good for you. Enjoy every moment, I can see many are very happy playing and very charitable as well. Kudos. to those who have no illusions and are happy doing what they want. You obviosly are not.

You, my friend are just bitter, Every post reaks of seeking credibility. Credible people are happy and encourage others to enjoy their keyboards. I LOVE the Yamaha T3. Its far better than the T2 (IMO)we had in the store. I bought the Korg as a tryout. I knew I would lose $400+ if I did not like it but that was a risk I could take.

When I figure out the MIDI implementation on the T3 with Sonar 8 and with the NI and VST synths IM a happy camper.

BUt hey this is your world. You are the "expert" the virtuoso on your four year old G70 and your claims of "mastering" hours of CDS seemed suspect to me when you did not even know what "reference monitors" really are. Wasn't it you that questioned my Monitor Ones? That revealed a lot about your "expertise" in the recording domain.

I don't care if you can sing or not. Thats your problem. IF you can't you had better play your ass off and from what you say you can......so why so bitter. ENJOY....

Talk to me when you "retire" at 53 with zero debt and the ability to buy any or all keyboards on the market without blinking an eye for cash. With money made performing more than local bars, Bingo parties and backyard weddings. YEah I made my bones as a performer in front of live bands who sometimes had to read down 7 piece charts they saw for the first time at 3PM for an 8 PM show., Which is Karaoke...I suppose in your world.

BTW My wife soes drive. She loves playing in clubs, But she PLAYS both the guitar and an 88 key weighted boards using some tracks. She won;t go out with the Tyros only. I respect her for that.



This was our roaD RIG








[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-02-2008).]

Wealth is relative. As Chris Rock once said, "if Bill Gates had Ophra's money, he'd probably kill himself" (and she's worth nearly 3 billion).

I'm suprised someone hasn't already pointed out to you that if you're posting here on a regular basis, you're probably neither rich nor famous (or married to anyone rich or famous).

chas

Wow Im loving this... when I asked for No Politics I was well rewarded with the best "My Gig is Better Then Your Gig" in a long long time Who knew?

BTW great Pics..

Kingfrog, your last post tells me a lot about you...and I am not referring to your accomplishments..

Your attitude about arrangers..justifies the reason the Tyros sits in the store you "work"..

As you said ..you never even heard of arranger keyboards till you started to work in the store..justifies..total ignorance the so called "pro" players have..

How can you possibly be successful in selling Tyros or any other arranger product..You do not have the know how..this shows from your own words..

As for being debt free and I guess having it made.. ..Did I understand you work at a music store...and.. you don't actually own a music store as many of us here...

Knowing products, and actually liking the products we sell ..is the only way..you can sell that lonely Yamaha arranger sitting on the shelf..

This is all to common in the industry...Thankfully there are a few good arranger sales people....One in Californian...One in Connecticut..and maybe one in Maryland....


PS: I too ..find myself debt free..


Also listen to some of the folks that play arrangers professionally here at Synth Zone...Glorified Karaoke players statements won't keep you in favour her..

Uncle Dave, DonM, DNJ, Songman55...just to name a few..These are guys that are as successful as they want to be..

Maybe you didn't mean to come off as your words spoke..

Yep, that's pretty much what I expected from you, Kingfrog...

Nobody gives a damn what you USED to do, especially as it wasn't playing (there are karaoke singer forums where you would be GOD! Which is what I feel you need, from what you post).

A washed up, retired, has been imitator of another, far more successful singer is EXACTLY who needs to come here and tell us (from his perspective of being unable to play) what our mistake is in not choosing the same equipment as him!

As I said, were I to beard you in your den, say a singer's forum, and admit I couldn't sing, needed Auto-Tune on everything, and had to punch in on every line, I don't think you would be particularly impressed, no matter HOW well I played keyboards, or who I played with (my list of credits includes many of the industry's greats). And if I verbally abused you while still admitting I couldn't sing, your patience would run extremely thin.

Mine has run out.

In future, I will not be responding to anything you post. I hope that you have the class to not take this as an opportunity to shoot me in the back, but, well, let's just see...

Frank I respect those who play and sing their heart outs as back ground music. My wife does that very thing. I just feel DIKI is a bitter guy who feels he is entitled to have been more of a success evidence by his many caustic posts on every subject and aggrandizing his skills and experience. He is the "know it all type" we all know and love. Apparently not getting the "respect" he feels he deserves. I feel bad for him.

I wanted to be a big star and rich some time ago. I worked for IATSE for three years out of school with touring rock shows as a truck loader. I saw first hand what its like up close what big acts get when they hit the stage, I wanted to be that but I was lazy.

I got a regular corporate job and I gave that up at 40 and just went with the flow doing friggin Neil Diamond...(I wanted to be Billy Joel) which was LAUGHABLE and believe me I put up with more jokes and public criticism than you could know. I also tasted the gourmet of the other adoring side. All for something I was not. Maybe I feel the same way about Arranger performers. who knows. That paid for my house and the Las Vegas housing bubble paid for my "retirement".

We are not rich. We are totally debt free. That may be rich today who knows. Our "Lexus" is in the bank. We still have to work. We just don't need to earn more than $1600 a month. I was offered $150 to host a Karaoke show once a week and I'm going to take it. Because Its fun and I totally enjoy watching people get up and sing publicly ,some for the first time, others revealing a repressed talent they have. The wife HATES Karaoke (because it takes work from real musicians) but thats "progress". Buggy Whips and all that.

I am learning that there are far more people earning a living with these arranger keyboards than I would have guessed. Just not here. I lived in LAs Vegas 15 years and never saw a single act with an Arranger keyboard. Always 88 keys. I don't see them here. This a very "new" concept to me. I learned about them first a couple years ago when I got off the road and started working for a Yamaha dealer in a huge MI store.I LOVED them. I sell more Bose PA Systems than Tyros. This is not a huge Arranger market considering its huge market for singles and duos, I wonder why. The owner is Acoustic piano oriented and did not even carry a Tyros until I bought mine. Just PSRs and recently the Korg PA50 which sold in a week.
He sells enough guitars, amps, PA, Sheet Music. He will put 300 guitars on the walls but won't carry pro keyboards like the Motif. When you compete against the Internet you become a demo house for them. Not so much the home stuff.

Yamaha's own research on the buyers of the Tyros going way back says they sell far more Arrangers to HOME users and STUDIOS hence their hesitance to make a 76 key Tyros. So those who play out using arrangers are few in the scheme of singles and duos according to their research. I have Never seen anyone playing out with one.

Now How can I sell them? EASY I sell them as a songwriting tool and sell them to small churches that don't have the room for a piano and organ and cannot afford the Clavinova they really want. Many ethnic latin folk buy the S900s. Never sold one to a pro player for use on a gig. Demoed them but they still have the toy stigma if they have speakers. and the Tyros is $500 more than the Motif X8.

My wife has been here 30 plus years playing for a living and knows everyone. No one on the "circuit: plays with an Arranger keyboard on a gig. That's why I have been extremely ignorant on them being used in that regard more than should and I wholly apologize for offending anyone who does. Especially those who play for those in nursing homes and charitable efforts. But unlike DIKI I do not need to be revered here and I will speak my mind and hope everyone knows it's only one person's opinion.

When you dress up in beads and sequin shirts with bad hair and sing Cracklin Rose for 12 years you understand the concept of not taking one person's opinion seriously, or you shrink up and die......all the way to the bank.

Look at me in the eyes.....
Bitter? Washed up? What exactly is that? Imitator..Yep. It wasn't my dream but it tool me places few performers will ever see, I played for crowds people like you dream of. Playing with musicians who could probably play circles around you. I Understand your bitterness and am not offended by it. I have put up with a lot worse (imagine that).

I am impressed with ANYONE who can earn a living playing music no matter what they use in that regard. I am not impressed with some who is constantly dissing those who post opposing opinion. There are one or two of you guys on every forum. You see, you have no idea how well I play. I may play far better then I will admit. The wife thinks so. I am a humble person. I have much higher standards of a PLAYER Because I worked with the BEST players. People come into the store I demo a keyboard and they think I'm a pianist....LOL. It's all relative. Try humility sometime you might like it and have more friends. Who else would admit to earning a living imitating someone else. I don;t find that as much of a stretch as An Arranger player imitating a whole band. Ya think?

You are right on both counts,,I never claimed I was either......however I don't think the Internet is reserved only for those who are not financially comfortable and one who is famous would have no logical reason to make that known.

double post

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-02-2008).]