I agree with you Zuki, every keyboard has its faults...

The PA 800 is not really a brand new keyboard. i love how all this started from me posting about buying one! hehehe

i cant wait to own a korg. I have ordered it, so i should be able to pick it up by Tuesaday this comming week! i cant wait!!!!!

Nick

After hearing this a "Million" times let me say this. Given the excellent styles in the PA2x (not the 1 bar boring styles I have experienced on the other arrangers ... and yes I OWNED them all!) I find this "So Called Glitch" not an issue at all!!! I find that with the more "Interesting" styles I use the fill in option far less! When I do ... my mind has been trained to utilize at the the top of the bar or middle (1/4 time sig of course)and this is a NONE ISSUE!!
By the way when someone finds the PERFECT ARRANGER please Email me immediately!!!!!!!!!!!!


[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 11-08-2008).]

Originally posted by JCkeeys:



You may have to wait a while for that Email..

If there is indeed a "workable" 'onboard' solution to the Korg arranger fill-in issue then I take back my words of not 'ever' getting one. But is the onboard fix a time consuming and difficult task to implement? It has to be done to each and every Style correct? So you have to do some sort of "editing" to 300 or more Styles, right? Or is this just some sort of "setting" in the OS Menu that will take care of the problem "globally". And is it really 100% "effective" 100 percent of the time??

Both Yamaha and it seems Ketron as well have gotten this all sorted out long ago (if there ever WAS an issue with them before at all). I am use to Yamaha arrangers. I NEVER had a problem with Yamaha's fill-in feature.

Best,
Mike

This glitch couldn't be more evident than the demos...

This has got to be fixed...Hopefully it is fixable and nothing to do with a slow processor...

Although this isn't the reason I do not care for the PA800...it adds to reason list...

Come on PA800 owners..surely it has to bug you....even a little bit..

If owners don't complain...it won't be fixed...if it can be fixed...

How could this response bother you, what should be bothering is that korg has released all of these boards (PA80, PA60, PA50, PA1x, PA1xpro, Pa2x, Pa800, pa500)and they haven't fixed the problem. No one is trying to harm the beloved Korg, There just pointing out a flaw and others people like AJ are helping to correct it, since korg has failed to do it.

Also I own a PA80 couldn't stand when the fill-in came in off beat and I tell you I was happy to get rid of the board because it was embarrassing when that happened.

As far as the "best" everyone has there opinion.

Good luck.....




[This message has been edited by mc (edited 11-08-2008).]

I agree it should be fixed. Just saying it is not a "Show Stopper" for me.
Not having a Break Fill on the G70 was a show stopper for me!!One of the major reasons I sold it. My point .... Everyone has their "I can't live with it" item.
Sooner or later you have to come to grips with what you "Have to have" and START PLAYING and MAKING $$$$$$$!!!!

No wonder Korg show no interest in fixing this...

All their users are tap-dancing around desperately to trivialize or outright deny it even exists. Why should Korg bother with something none of their users seem to care about..?

Obviously, those users MUST not worry too much about timing and strange jumps, because they decided to buy it anyway! Of course, perhaps Korg might consider all the owners of other arrangers that PERHAPS have decided against Korg because of this one issue...

And zuki and NickG, take a chill pill! All we are talking about is this ONE issue... it has nothing to do with all the other GOOD points that make the arranger into the one you love above all. But, just as you MIGHT have decided against other arrangers on an operational point that IT'S owners aren't too worried about, it doesn't mean YOUR concerns were of any less value, does it?

The option to HAVE to trigger ALL fills in advance is completely unacceptable. REALLY! Who amongst us triggers the fills by ANY other way than calling them EXACTLY when you want them? To HAVE to completely change how you have been using an arranger for decades, to avoid a glitch like this is not a solution... it's a tiny band-aid on a gaping wound!

And, to be honest, I STILL feel this issue is mostly related to the lack of fills. Roland's, Yamaha's, Ketron's, just about ALL arrangers would have this issue to a certain extent if they only had two fills to make twelve possible variation changes (not counting fill-to-same).

A busy variation needs a fill that is busy at the start, to transition well into it... use that same fill on a MUCH less busy, loud, frenetic variation, and as soon as you jump into it, you WILL get an anomaly no matter WHAT you use... There is just no way around this.

To be honest, I would prefer AJ's test to be more 'real world' and see what happens when you ask for the fill on the 2 or the 3, rather than just trying to be fractionally late on the 1, but I have a feeling it's about the same, maybe slightly less noticeable.

So, all in all, I'm not sure whether this is more a problem with the way that Korg actually MAKE styles (they certainly put in a lot of variation, very distinct variations from each other) and the problem with not enough fills to transition smoothly from these very disparate sections, or whether there IS an OS problem about sending all those different patch change, volume, effects, etc., in IMMEDIATE response to a call for a fill, where it might be better if it waits for the next whole beat....

But you can pretty much guarantee that Korg will continue to come out with OS after OS with no fix, because it's owners are more concerned with APPEARING to be better than other arrangers by denying any problem (now WELL explained and demonstrated - for shame none of you were willing to try this!) even exists, than actually demanding it's repair, and MAKING it into the 'perfect arranger' they merely CLAIM (in the face of evidence to the contrary).

That tactic is now working AGAINST you... Do you have the strength of will to change this knee-jerk reaction, and finally get around to demanding that YOUR manufacturer do something about this? Maybe some more of us would finally join you in arranger nirvana if you did (many are CERTAINLY not going to until they do). But continue to trivialize it, and the problem will remain.

Time will tell...

In the meantime, please, all you Korg users... hands up if ANY of you always cue your fills a bar in advance? Nope, didn't think so...

I'm curious about this issue. Not to tick off anyone or offend any member here, but what's the core of the fill problem with Korg? I always read (Yamaha and Roland) handle it better, but is it the fill that's off or the players timing?

Does Yamaha and Roland handle it better in terms of smoother transitions to account for any minor timing issues that player may have?

Again, not to tick anyone off, but this issue has come up a lot, and from what I've seen on the subject it would "appear"..., the Korg "might perhaps" require the user to have better timing where as the Yamaha or Roland will compensate for this (or am I wrong)??



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 11-08-2008).]

Timing of asking for the fill should have ZERO effect on the smoothness of transition.

You don't have this problem simply changing variations (or at least, shouldn't), no matter where in the bar. The arranger, should you ask for something fractionally late, should give it you on the next beat or sub-beat (8th note) in perfect time. The only exception to this is when you change chords during a longer note, and the arranger seamlessly bends the note to where it should be instantaneously (in case you are fractionally late with the chord change). But rhythmical accuracy should NEVER suffer.

Squeak's pretty much nailed it right there!
it is definitely a user timing error. Roland and yamaha have just made it more easier for the user not to screw up and sound bad.