Dennis,

The L1 has a lot more power than most systems. The tower is 500-watts RMS, 1,000-watts peak power, while the sub is 250-watts RMS and 500-watts peak. The total is 750-watts RMS and 1,500-watts peak power. That's one hell of a lot of wattage coming out of a total of 25 speakers (24 tower--1 sub).

IMHO, most of the folks that say the L1 does not have enough volume have never used the system. Or, they are so accustomed to having their heads blown off by conventional systems that they are unaware the falloff from conventional systems is much greater than the falloff of a vertical array system.

I realize that 600 Km to the nearest Bose dealer is a long drive to hear a sound system, but if I were in your shoes I would make the trip. However, in order to make the trip bountiful it's imperative to bring your equipment with you. Set it up just the same as you would set it up on the job, then set the Bose EQs exactly the way it is described in the instruction manual. I cannot emphasize the importance of this. There are a number of individuals that have purchased the L1 and said they could not get the same sound out of their system that I get from mine. Then when questioned about how they set it up, they said they just plugged in their keyboard and turned up the volume. There is a lot more to the setup than turning on the keyboard and turning up the volume. When set up properly the L1 and the Model 2 can do things no conventional sound system can accomplish.

The final part of the L1 question should be "Will I sound that much better, and will it make me more money?" Only you can answer this question.

Good luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary

Hello,
My two cents; with all due respect to Kingforg, I've used the system in large outdoor venues with 2 subs and I can say it certainly had the 'thump' that my old Mackie rig had. With proper EQ it is possible.
Ciao,
Jerry

I don't know why really, but just today I set up the Bose L1 in the driveway, and also two Barbetta 31c powered speakers. I thought maybe I didn't remember correctly or was missing something. No, the Bose totally blew the stereo Barbettas away.
I've used it on tiny jobs and huge, outdoor jobs, and it has never failed to impress everyone who heard them. I know of half a dozen musicians who bought the system after hearing mine. The latest was just this week, when a friend who has a 10-piece show band bought two of themm, with four subs, for their system.
Still, as mentioned, I'm sure they are not for everyone. Still the only criticisms I hear are from those that don't own them.
One of these days I'm going to hook up BOTH my L1 systems together just to hear what that would sound like. Maybe I'll do that at the January Shreveport Jam.
DonM

Garry, Jerry and Don...Thanks heaps for that data and your experiences..Makes a big difference..

Wow Gary, I didn't realise they had that much grunt!! Cool.

The other problem I forgot to mention (well not REALLY a problem) is in some of the smaller venues I do, especially the piano bar type one, I have to set up just the two EV's, and whilst they are excellent, and I can compensate somewhat with the Yamaha dynamics control on the amp, I do lose bottom end clarity.

These L1's might be a great compromise system, and I will go further and say that from what you guys are saying, it would be more than a compromise, it would be a huge improvement.

I might give the Bose people a ring again, and see if we can work something out..

Again, my many thanks for your valuable thoughts guys.. Big thumbs up.

Dennis

Well, DUH!

Why would you buy one if you have a criticism of it?!

That doesn't mean that some haven't tried them, heard others use them, and made sure they were set up correctly, etc.. And decided they did not like them.

I only saw this thread today (coming home after 6 gigs in 6 days) so my apologies Dennis.

I'm going to be as detailed as I can, not because I think my opinions in general are more valid than anyone else's on these boards, but because we play (as a duo Keyboards/Electric Guitar) in ALL types of venues with the Bose **in Australia** including Pubs/Hotel/Club situations, AND we play (at times) **almost IDENTICAL setlists to Dennis**.

So this is one of the few times (maybe the only time? ) I think my opinion is more relevant than most other people's - ONLY IN THIS PARTICULAR THREAD - so you can all go back to ignoring my comments/advice in every OTHER thread.....I would!


Now Dennis,

THURSDAY:
We played a local pub here, very close to where we live. We have standing requests there for "Copperhead Road", and "It's a Long Way to the Top" (AC/DC) - Fairly Hard Rock imo, and we do authentic, loud, "full on" versions.

FRIDAY: A large-ish Leagues Club on the Gold Coast, (Halloween) where people were on the Dancefloor from start to finish. Age range - 5 years old (cute kids), teens-20's (girls/guys wanting Top40), 40's-50's (wanting Pubb-ish rock) to people in their 70's (slow dancing couples). So the setlist there was CCR (Bad Moon, Proud Mary) RnR (Great Balls of Fire, Shake Rattle & Roll), Top40 (I'm Yours, I Kissed a Girl, Sweet About Me), Ballads (When You say Nothing at All, Crazy), Country (Chatahoochie, Boot Scootin' Boogie)

SATURDAY: Small Sports Club where the stage is setup DIRECTLY across from the bar - VERY bad setup.

SUNDAY: A suburban RSL Club, conservative tastes.

TUESDAY: Melbourne Cup(!) A very large Historic venue in the CBD

TUESDAY (2nd Melbourne Cup gig) same Pub as mentioned earlier for Thursday.


The Bose covered all these gigs without missing a beat technically.

What you WILL find regarding problems is the following:

On our Saturday gig (with the bad bar setup) we were forced to turn down to very low levels early in the night because the Bar staff (apparently) couldn't hear people's orders - the Bar was maybe 25 feet from our speakers.

So ISSUE #1

When you start up at a gig initially with the Bose, you may be asked to turn down straight away.

This is an issue I've thought about a lot when we first got the system, and have had many discussions with audiences (People seeing us for the first time, Venue Staff, Friends, "Fans" (i.e. people who have seen us with the Bose in many different venues), Musicians and Non-Musicians.

My Conclusion: Many people are simply not used to the CLARITY of the Bose. They assume that because they can hear everything so plainly, from vocals on down (including breathing, slight vocal noises etc) that the PA must be VERY loud.

It is not.

It is just very... well... clear.

***Outcome*** Later on in the evening at that same club, we turned up and nobody seemed to mind - they had "adjusted to the sound".

(Same Issue)
At the 1st Melbourne Cup gig (large CBD venue) we had an unfortunate situation of being placed far away from their wonderful dancefloor and in the middle of the audience (seated diners) with the Bose tower and stacked Subs literally 3-4 feet(!) from one table.
We had to reach a HUGE spread (a full 180 degree of patrons spread out over a 35 metre (or more) area with (well over 150 people). Initially we got a complaint from the lady seated nearest to the Bose (understandably enough) and we did our utmost to turn down yet still reach EVERYONE - which, according to many audience members, we did!

***Outcome*** Once a few drinks were had and the race was done, we "officially partied" and turned up to more than 3 times our dinner Volume. The people danced wherever they could find room (right off to our extreme left side mostly where there was a mere "patch" of Dancefloor) and the "badly placed table diners" stayed and clapped/sang along with a 30 people strong Conga line erupting at the end (song: HOT HOT HOT).

(This is a venue we have been trying to "get into" for quite some time, and we have now been invited back (thanks to the overwhelming response of the audience).

TUESDAY (2nd gig) Same Hotel/Pub as Thursday, playing 6pm-9.30pm, so we were asked to keep it down because of dinner service times (6.00-8.30) we played at a great volume for us (loud enough to be "comfortable") with people dancing from the very first song, and no bar problems (this bar is much CLOSER to the stage then that other sports Club Bar) and after 8.30 we turned right up as the Patrons (some very drunk and in party mode) danced along to everything from "Ring of Fire" to "Bust a Move" (80's rap classic) and the Black Eyed Peas (Pump it & Let's get it Started - Rap/RnB/Pop) and more Hard Rock, Alternate ("Zebra" - John Butler Trio - Dennis knows), Ben Harper etc etc etc etc etc

This is probably my longest post - my apologies, I try to keep things much shorter these days so as not to bore people, and to be a better post writer - I really DO believe less is more - but I had to give everyone, particularly Dennis a peek into just what we (and more importantly the Bose) covers.


Lastly, nobody has ever ---- E V E R ---- come up to us and said ANYTHING derogatory about our sound "punchy wise" or "Hard Rock Wise" or "Top 40 wise" if you all see what I'm getting at.

They have been drop dead amazed though...

Allow me to cut n paste from another thread directly related to this discussion (this occurred at that conservative RSL we played on SUNDAY mentioned above)


"A young guy came up to me at a gig last Sunday (yesterday Oz time) at a club that is very conservative in it's tastes music wise.

I thought, "oh no, this alternate looking dude is going to blast me for playing Brown Eyed Girl etc".

Turns out he was a part time DJ (and full time Teacher) who was drop dead amazed at the sound that was coming out of my Model 2 L1 (2 Bass Modules and a Tonematch) - he asked where you can buy it, how much was it yada yada. He is a mobile DJ who plays weddings, High School Dances and the rest.

He just bought a Roland Board (that new Juno re-issue (?) circa 2006) and was seriously considering adding samples and full dance mixes to his DJ set.

He was a nice guy, and I got him a job at that same gig when another audience member approached us for a Party Boat scenario (we were booked - so I passed it on to him).

He said goodbye after a couple of sets with a big smile (for the Job) and shaking his head (at the Bose) and the last thing he literally said to me was basically how if he sold his current rig (including some giant JBL 18" sub and two top speakers) he could afford the Bose....

I wish him well."


So Dennis,unless things are RADICALLY different interstate at the venues you play, you will NOT have a problem sounding "credible" enough in pubs/Hotels/Clubs with the Setlist you describe.

Thanks for reading, again sorry for the long post.

Just spoke with the sound guy at the music store I deal with, and he reckoned they have sold eight systems only in the l;ast three years.

He also said the users, and people who had demo'd it said they had big problems with feedbakc because of the 130 degree dispersion, and had to stand several feet away from teh tower to avoid feedback.

What has the experience of users here been when it coems to feedback? Remember I DO need to crank this system from time to time, you know, dial to number 8...
Thanks.
Dennis

PS: btw the system I am looking at is s/h for $2500AUD (about 1300 US) and includes a second sub amp.

Hellboy..thankyou, thankyou, thankyou....exactly the extra info I was after..It REALLY does help and takes most of the worry away..

If you are still online, can you advise on the so called "feedback issues" the sound guy at the store mentioned?

Although as Bose handle all distribution directly and the store ONLY gets a small commission on a sale, I suspect he may have ulterior motives for denigrating the Bose system.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 11-04-2008).]

Well yeah, that reminds me about something else important: feedback & PA placement.

So here's the deal.

Bose "officially" recommend placing the L1 about 6-8 feet (optimally) BEHIND you, so you can hear what the audience hears - fair enough - well I don't know about you, but many of the places we play, the stage is NOT deep enough for that (some are, and sound is DIVINE there for us)

BUT

many stages simply don't accommodate this. Incidentally we don't have too much feedback problems with the Model 2 (it has a wider dispersion, articulated drivers, and is even MORE resistant to feedback than the Model 1) we have had problems if we're too close to the system (around 5 feet or less) and too loud - feedback problems DO EXIST with the Bose, probably less than with conventional systems but they do happen. I suspect what that guy was telling you was a mixture of the truth and maybe also trying to steer you away to more "profitable" systems - dunno...

So where does this leave us?

Well we just set up the L1 wherever we can.
We have it:

a) Slightly in front, in between us on stage.
b) Off to one side, anywhere from 3 feet to 10 feet offstage, (behind, in line, or in front of us).
c) Behind us (as recommended) from 4-5 feet (not too good) to 7-9 feet (great).

The good news is, wherever we put it, we hear everything (especially vocals) quite clearly!

The Bad news (kinda) is that when you put it behind YOU, it is indeed optimal as you hear almost EXACTLY what the audience hears. When YOU are Behind the L1, the sound is still good (no monitors needed believe me) but things, naturally enough, are not quite as the audience hears, but I'm really only reminded of that when we play those stages that allow us to do the "official placement" thing.

Is that clear enough?


[This message has been edited by hellboy44 (edited 11-04-2008).]

(Cheers BBBB )

I just remembered one other thing re "trialling".

In Australia Bose does not have the 45 day trial (at least not when we bought it about 6-8 months ago now) but the store we bought it from had a loaner/demo model. We grabbed that for 1 week, setting it up at home in the lounge (something I recommend) to learn the system. Then we played 3 gigs with it oif I recall, at pretty different venues. By the third gig we knew it was a keeper.

That sounds like a sensational price btw - but what exactly are you getting?

We got a Model 2, a T1 (Bose mixing desk) and 2 B1 (bass modules) for approx $4990 (Aus)