http://www.box.net/shared/af42iryv8p

People are always talking about being afraid to post fearing criticism. Criticism is like fertilizer. It may stink but it helps the plant grow. I have posted this song on songwriters forums and have heard all different suggestions. but in the end its all about the process of writing and recording...the journey. After the song is written and recorded. It is of no use to me. If other gain something from it. Great. If not.Great.


Recorded this at home before I know what an Arranger keyboard was. Never took a lesson. I "hear" the parts them play them. Sold a lot of CDs of my own music during my 12 years as a Neil Diamond act. Go figure.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-23-2008).]

Wow.

Great Stuff! - Where's the rest of it?!?!?!?
For some reason I only got 2.32 of it.

Is that your own song? If it is, it's very well written, simple and solid - in a really good way. Very plaintive and emotional without being saccharine - nice.

Well done KF, very well done - nice production too - very hot master (volume wise) stands out a mile with a nice warm bottom end.

A question - did you sing that "as" Neil Diamond, or is that, essentially, your real voice?

Yep,
that was very nice!
I can't say anything more other than I admire that you play by ear.

It would be nice to hear something with an arranger backing.
Thanks for posting.

I didn't realize Neil Diamond had a new song coming out?

http://www.neildiamond.com/

Frankly, I think your voice is better than Diamond's is...

good job, man..

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Kingfrog excellent work. Some have it and some don't, you've got it, thanks for posting.

Man, that is some good stuff. I have to agree with Bill.
Merry Christmas!

Kingfrog ... YOU'RE GOOD !!!
thnx mch,
t.

...

good job...but better then a Legend like Neil?...

copy cat voices are always judged harshly just like SZ's beach bum & Sting....having your own original sound is what should be strived for so there's no comparison.

Anyway, Kingfrog real nice song, well done, thanks for sharing. Do you have anything that doesn't sound like Neil recorded?

d.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-24-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-24-2008).]

Speecheless,

Impuls.:-)

Thanks for the kind words all. Yeah its my song done at home.
Unfortunately (or fortunately since I had a good career and saw the world) its me through and through, I cannot get away from the sound. When I try (and I tried LOL) it sounds way contrived. So I just go with it. I knew a long time ago I wasn't gpoing to be a "star" My music never fit the "times"nor did I write for the times. My "sound" has been a blessing and a curse indeed.

I write what comes to me whether a big band tune or a mushy love song. The CD is the blank canvas.

The Arranger allows me to go places I never could go before because I don't have the arranging chops for many styles even though I have written in them (or made grand attempts). Its a hoot to take an old song with a shuffle feel and horns and let the ""professionals" do it.

That song I did the parts because,well that kind of song is easy to arrange. Not much there. Simple.

As a OMB Im afraid everything I would perform would sound alittle like Neil was doing it, and if you know Neils music there is a conundrum only few have. His voice is very "attached" to his music. Others covering his songs (evem Elvis) do them no justice and they sound foolish unless they do what UB40 did with Red Red Wine and completely remake them. The same thing goes when Neil tries to cover others songs. Something is amiss. Who wants to hear four hours of Neil singing Billy Joel, James Taylor and /or Kenny Loggins? LOL.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-24-2008).]

Copykat voice are inded judged harshly. You should read some of the reviews I have been "blessed" with. LOL I learned early and painfully you cannot believe the good ones because then you have to believe the bad ones.

A San Diego paper once said "His performance reminded me of every reason I hate Neil Diamond....so I guess he was great".

Another memorable one from Atlantic City went along the lines of

"He looked like Neil but he sounded absolutely nothing like Neil, I guess anyone with a bad haircut and a sparkling shirt singing Sweet Caroline could get an audience to react like he did"

Amazingly I made a career and was paid sometimes stupid money to so this 10 years before that review!! LOL/.


Unfortunately I sound what I sound like. I did not set out to be Neil. I was never a fan of Neils. I hated the comparison people made. I tried like hell to change it. But My phrasing was always compared to Neil all the way back to the 70's.

ANd yes I hated it. That is until John Stuart of Legends in Concert saw me. He tried for two years to get me to do the Neil thing. I finally succumbed and it was a wonderful ride for 12 years full time. I finally had an outlet for MY SONGS. in fact I was the only act that sold original material in the gift shops and souvenir stands. When people asked for me singing Neil I told them to buy the real thing. Made no sense to me to sell me singing Neil on CD. Performing yes.

So Nope I'm afraid I'm just an "almost" hack who has no voice of his own. LOL.









[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-24-2008).]

May I ask why you stopped touring Neil is popular as ever.& did Neil ever catch your show?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-24-2008).]

Yes wow.

Cousin Ken

I would be "More" than happy to have what you have!!

Excellent!!!

I am sure Neil knows who I am but He only really went to shows in LA. He caught Super Diamond. (A Neil act in heavy Metal Great show). I heard his brother Harvey saw me and his mother Rose went to the Vegas shows.

The reason I stopped? I could finally afford to. Actually I lived in Las Vegas and got a contract to work in Myrtle beach for a few months with a different Producer. One of the keyboard players and I got pretty close and after four months we fell in love. I took advantage of the housing bubble in Las Vegas and sold my home in 6 hours! Moved to Sc and we built a house and banked some money. I had one more contract with Legends in Branson to do. We got married and I left for Branson. two weeks into the contract my wife is diagnosed with breast cancer and the compnay would not let me finish my contract in the SC show, So I stayed in Branson while my wife went through he thing. As a 30 year musician in MB her friends wanted to throw a benefit for Breast Cancer' Legends would not support doing it in their parking lot!! I came home and vowed never to work for Legends again and never leave home for an extended time again. We had some money paid off everything and I took a part time job in a music store.

Three years later all is well. The wife is fine and performing her solo. I am writing again. I have been asked to host a Karaoke/dance show in the Spring a couple nights a week (full circle LOL). The wife is begging me to to a duo with her. I may do that since she can carry the show. Life is good,

(Now I will take a one night job as Neil for stupid money if its less than a 3 hour plane ride maybe longer if the money is really stupid)

Neil knows all of us that performed with the major shows. I had a chance to meet him since I worked with Ronnie Tutt's (his and previously Elvis' drummer)daughters in one of the shows I did on the high seas. And He is always open to meeting us as well. But its really was not that important to me except to ask him "whats up with the chair with ears" in the Song I Am I Said. LOL. I did not need the "promo" Many Neil impersonators have pictures with him. Neil likes us (we keep him out there I guess).

I billed myself as the THIRD BEST Neil Diamond tribute artist in the world.

1. All the other Neil Impersonators according to their promo

2. Neil Himself

3. Me

It worked! Go figure. Now you might understand why my moniker and LLC is aptly named KingFrog Productions.

I am truly a frog who became a king for a few moments in time in many venues from the Joes Bar and Grill karaoke in 1984 to the Daytona Speedway and points between. I have great memories.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-24-2008).]

Kingfrog,
I have one question for you....Is there CD's of you available in stores...or are they available from you (website or whatever)?? I would like to buy one.

I guess that is the ultimate compliment.

Lee

Not only do you do a great job of impersonating Neil Diamond, but you also write and arrange very well.

Nice work.

Ian

Good stuff! Neil's not mty favorite, either, but you do him well, and have the voice to stand on your own, although, with the similarities, that would probably be hard, comparison-wise.


Russ

Russ You have no idea. It was a ball and chain until I succumbed and used it to my benefit. I never "tried" to do him. All I had to do was understand his songs and use my theater education to make them real and mine. Like anyone should do with any song anyway.

If I had to "work" at being an impersonator I would never have thought to even do it. All I had to do were have costumes and wigs made....(OH and learn how to play EADBCG with rhythm on the guitar which I already was messing with)

You never know where you will end up in the Arts. Its usually not where you expected. LOL

My vocal inspirations are Gino Vanelli,James Taylor, Billy Joel and Kenny Loggins. Light years away. LOL

Kingfrog great story, awesome memories & glad it worked out for your & your wife...keep it up Music is MAGIC no matter how you do it!!

Happy New Year!

No they were not. I sold them at the venues. No way would they fit well with anything on the Walmart rack. I don;t have a website. Never did. I used a private site specifically for agents and talent bookers. Which I have since taken down. I found public websites to be more vanity websites then ways to attract business. Plus you can do a lot of faking on a public website. I got most of my more lucrative work FROM work. Thats the best way.People will fly to see an act they intend on using for three months in a show or make you fly to audition which I refused to do since 50% of my act was "missing" The audience.

As far as CDs go you can download songs from Boxnet. I'm not selling them. I understood they wer more of a Souveneer than a work or music people were buying. They bought my CD based on seeing me perform as Neil!! Its not like they heard my own songs. Most of them are probably lost in couch cushions,under car seats, or under the refrigerator....LOL

I will post more if people are interested but my focus is on REDOING some of them. Others were so bad and recorded years ago but I needed filler. LOL.

Thank You and salutations back your way. I will with the help of the great Tyros keep on as the arrangers save me a ton of time.

I am sure I will still want to arrange my own music when I simply cannot find a style to use.

I have a "big band" tune I did myself called "Short Lived Romance" I want to see if I can adapt to the arranger. Thats why I bought the TYROS.....STYLE SUPPORT. I have songs I need to find styles for. Its easier to START with a style but Im finding it harder to find a Style to use with a finished work. Like the one I posted here.

Hi Kingfrog:

Your story is both impressive and a little sad. I really appreciate the opportunity to listen to the song at "the Box." I really enjoy Neil Diamond... and you sound very much like him. What's even more impressive is the list of other well known performers you have the ability to sound like... assuming that you really do sound like them.

I hope you'll take time to listen to a few of my songs at the link below my signature. I believe we need to have a serious conversation or two. I'm a songwriter who does his own demos but if I had your talent, I think I might be able to bypass Nashville, LA and NYC. Let's talk.

Dave Rice (The one from Glen Rose, Texas)
http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

[This message has been edited by Riceroni9 (edited 12-26-2008).]

How do I listen to other 'KINGFROG' songs at the box?
Thanks,
Lee

I've heard your songs before Dave. I think I commented on how much you sound like Boz Scaggs. Of course everyone probably sounds like someone else. I enjoy writing and recording but I have no illusions bout anything beyond my front door. LOL. I don;t believe I have a library of work that would compare with professional songwriters who do this day in and out and can write based solely on craft and not inspiration. Those are the real deals.

BTW I do not sound like those artists. I mention them as artists I would love to emulate. Gino's Power and range, Kennys Dynamics, Jame's clean simple sound, Joels's "anger" and lyric. They are MY heros as writers and singers.

I don;t know how to open the files publically but I can link to them.....
http://www.box.net/shared/akdin4g7nt

Heres one I did about 8 years ago I want to use the Tyros to re do for fun (without the vocal doubling). This was done on the Triton/Proteus/Roland U220/D5. The drum track was Stepped in using a Roland 707. Took hours and hours. Just the drum fill near the end took me 3 hours to step in note by note.....Now you know why I bought an arranger.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-26-2008).]

Kingfrog,
that was spectacular, really pro quality at least in my ears, way above some offerings posted here. Congratulations.

If you don't find a suitable style, don't worry, you will be able to crate your own.

BTW, that comes from someone who does not know who Neil Diamond is. Heard the name before, never heard a song, at least knowingly.

Ears like yours are my "target" audience...LOL Thanks.

I was talking about the second song you posted.

There is an easy way for me to form an opinion, or to "judge" something, (in lack of a better word).

I just click the link, and if I like the sound of it, I turn up the volume a little and leave the room.

Well, your song was like listening to something on the radio. That (for me) means you had good mixing, good quality instruments, and good sense of music, to produce something that could be played in the airwaves. Worth my time to comment. Post more, thank you.

The recording quality of the first song is very good but the timing, or lack thereof, on the drums and percussion is atrocious and detracts from the song altogether.

The second song is clearly a demo and it shows so I'll not comment on that song other than to say once again your drum and percussion parts are horribly out of time.

You're obviously talented but it appears playing or programming drums is a major weak point for you. I'd suggest either hiring a drum programmer or great drummer to cut your songs. You are doing yourself a great disservice by presenting songs to the public with timing issues. Unless of course you don't care what the general public thinks about your music which probably isn't the case.

Arrangers can be wonderful tools to help write songs and present them in a better light but styles have to be reworked to fit particular songs most of the time. If your programming skills aren't up to snuff you'll find once again the backing tracks will detract from your song rather than add to it. No matter what style of music you write and record always try to present it in the best possible manner. Keep up the good work!

I accept your criticism with an open mind and a huge..."Duh" LOL I have far far more "weaknesses than just Drum programming. Playing keyboards is one of them! Thats why I am excited about using an Arranger. However like the guy on the ship people bashed, if people like it thats the icing. If they don't. No harm no foul. I will never please a professional producer/engineer. Hell they can't please each other! So I don't aim for them.

. However I do not believe for a second I am doing a "disservice" to myself for sharing the imperfect music. That was the best I could do at the time I did it. Either people like it or they don't. My joy is in the process, not the accolades.I appreciate the kudos like anyone would but I thankfully don't depend on mass appeal for my living. Which is a good thing.

I already know where the weaknesses are because I am acutely aware of the limits of my ability but I do not believe that is a reason NOT to share it in a public.People buying home made CDs don't have huge expectations. They are just happy to take a piece of the show home with them. I'm happy to collect $10 for the CD and a mailing list for future songs.

I'm trying the arranger route to do the arranging and playing because I am not an arranger any more then any singer songwriter who calls on David Foster or Michael Omartian to produce their work. Nor am I interested in seeking those lofty levels of accomplishment. I'm 54 years old! Its a pass time, Always has been. Definitely under no illusions here.

Thanks for listening.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

Thanks..You are no different from Joe Public. If he likes it he can enjoy it dispite the warts.

As you wish, Heres some more punishment LOL
These songs were among 50 or so recorded in late 90's early 2000 and are songs I believe are worthy of re rerecording using the T3 voice set and the better gear (and hopefully will benefit from years of singing everyday) I bring to the table today.
http://www.box.net/shared/53mtncqd1m

http://www.box.net/shared/kehjnvtpy4

http://www.box.net/shared/8odyvakji8

http://www.box.net/shared/8odyvakji8




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-27-2008).]

The 2nd Iiked more.

Funny how people will play in front of an audience ...think nothing of it & are confident they sound good....but on an Internet forum will never post a demo, or song, etc, in fear of critical opinions...


very weird.

Oh gawd. New approach, same ol' crap.

I think what is 'very weird' is....those people who can't let it go. I worry about people who become obsessive about other people's actions, especially when it's no concern of theirs. Nigel has made his feelings about it very clear but I guess there are always going to be those that choose to ignore it.

chas

Well Chas what will be will be ...
I personally dont give a crap about what anyone else does...I just do MY thing....I see it really bothers you very much but thats ok.....so let's see, today I've annoyed you with incorrect grammar & about asking musicians that only talk talk talk to simply back up what they are offering as to advice to post a musical sample once in a while to solidify their statements which in turn makes us all learn from, "Che sera sera," . Dragging Nigel into this will not change how I feel about it sorry opinions is what we do on a discussion forum. I guess we'll all just talk & remain exclusivly email secretive about what we play.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a cold Sam Adams Cherry Wheat brew to enjoy & watch some football.... Go Eagles!

I too find it peculiar that there is a dearth of personal accomplishment posted in a forum like this. Criticism cannot be taken to heart. No one has received more public and private criticism than a Neil Diamond impersonator or ANY impersonator. LOL

I remember producing my own little track show with two background singers in the mid eighties for one night and sold tickets. I was heckled so bad by one group in the room of 300 the show was stopped and they were removed. After that I memorized a bucket load of comebacks like a comedian.

The point is if I took ANY negative criticism seriously I would have never seen and performed at vacation resorts, theaters, amphitheaters all over the US and Abroad. Diego Garcia was the longest plane rides. I would not be semi retired at 50 because I would have not moved to Las Vegas and been seen by the Originator of the tribute Show, John Stuart who I worked for for many years. I could not afford to work in a music store part time selling dreams. I would not have sold thousands of home produced CDs of MY songs. I would have caved and believed in those who said I sucked in papers publicly and privately, and in performance. Just like the guy who got bashed in another thread. I feel for him. I have been there..bought the T-Shirt. Used it to wash my cars and bike.

As far as the song goes. I learned a long time ago from very wise people its not about the production.ITSS. (It's the song stupid) Lighting won't save a bad show, nor music and great acting a poor script. A good Song will shine through the worst production. I had the opportunity to hear demos of some hits before they were hits. I GOT it. A good song should stand alone without production on just piano voice or guitar voice. That's the litmus test. The production is the Christmas wrapping which is sometimes better then the gift.

Today people sell production. There are no standards. Its all dated. Just the Way You Are is dated but stands the test of time, as does Sweet Caroline which apparently is a theme song for the Red Soxs

Song first wrapping second. I have high hopes to wrap the song in better wrapping paper using professional players who created the arrangement styles as well as continuing to arrange my own work using portions of styles and sampled loops of real drummers. I hate programming anything.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

I'm sorry. Does the Administrator discourage posting of personal examples of works?



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

I just think that there is a natural curiosity about whether those that post here, and express their opinion SO forcefully, actually have the chops to back up what they say. Talking about music, as I have said so many times, is like dancing about mathematics! Without example, it is the wrong medium to illustrate your thoughts.

No doubt those with Bose systems would LOVE to have us doubters actually hear them in person. No amount of words can change an opinion about a SOUND... But a listen can do it instantly. Same with an arranger aspect, sound or operation. A song is worth a thousand words. A book about Charlie Parker doesn't tell you what ONE song can...

I, for one, would LOVE it if the MS fans quit talking about how great they are, and actually SHOWED us. 'Great' means so many things to so many different people. I'd like to HEAR how great it is

Unfortunately, I think that they feel unwilling to post because there might be a negative reaction to the demo. However, I find this cowardly, however, when they are SO willing to berate it's detractors in words, and extol the thing without example. If you have the conviction of your words, you should be able to post at least a LITTLE something to illustrate them. Failure to do so, refusal to allow others to make their OWN minds up, rather than HAVE to accept you at your word (or not ) for lack of anything else is a cop out, IMO.

Only the most rabid of fan boy zealots ever damn a demo on principle alone, and we all KNOW who those are, thereby making their comments moot, and not worth worrying about... Every time we play in public, we risk EXACTLY the same thing from an audience. A poor reaction. Yet we still do it I fail to see why here matters any MORE

I am FAR more concerned about what my audience says and does than anyone here And I honestly think that if we all felt the same, we would be hearing from a LOT more members than we currently do.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-28-2008).]

Au contraire...
The message talks about people that criticize but never post an example, never let themselves be the "defendant"

+1 The audience is the final arbiter. Positive Critic Critique and Peer acceptance is great but is a distant second to those who sign the checks and buy the tickets.

Many Oscars have been given to movies that were not commercial hits.

Diki Great post well said!

Indeed. Just like its nice to put a face with a voices ,its nice to attach music to someone's words. If someone prefers the Korg becasue of its Raw live sound I would love to hear an example of that that shows what it can do other Arrangers cannot.

Kingfrog:

You have E-mail... unless you have changed your E-address and neglected to update your info here at the Zone.

Regards,

Dave Rice

Spam, spam, spam, spam,
Spam, spam, spam, spam,
Lovely Spam, wonderful Spam...

(BLOODY VIKINGS! )

Actually I was just posting a few more tunes Diki....