Well then. In that case perhaps there is a place for an Arranger in today's modern music world after all.

Ohhh...., there's a place alright. The DJX proved that.., don't forget Roland took a shot at it too with the EG-101. The problem is that the arranger makers don't want to give up that profit margin when you look at the prices of the home arranger compared to the pro workstation.

I still give much Kudo's to Korg though because they are doing a great job at combining the two with the PA series. They may not be choc full of modern styles, but the tools are there to make them.., along with the more up to date Korg soundsets too (considering the PA's had their programs originally based on the Triton Classic)

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-30-2008).]

They probably don't include many "modern" styles because of people like me. I don't care if they are there, but I won't be using them and would prefer they use the space for up-to-date Country, Ballad, Blues or Rock styles.
Oh yes, and it's people like me who buy the blasted things.
If you listen to a "Country" radio station now, there is very little traditional country music on it. Oh sure, they put a little steel guitar in the background to "brand" it, but most of the modern country songs are slightly reworked rock or pop style songs. The days of 3 chords and the truth are pretty much past. Michael Buble and Blake Shelton both released powerful versions of "Home". They were quite similar in sound and feeling.
I mention Country, Rock, Blues and Pop, because I prefer songs with a melody and chord structure of some sort, yet don't want to be mired in 100% oldies.
My very limited concept of Hip-hop and other modern styles is that the emphasis is on the beat rather than the melody or structure. That is almost certainly an over-simplified statement though! However, it would seem that a talented style-maker could create and market a catalog of modern styles. If the market for them is really that strong, he could make a lot of money. I know, after the initial wave of sales everyone would copy and re-distribute them, but by then the current market would have changed and the style-maker could create "today's" crop of styles. I suppose Yamaha is the industry leader in volume, so that would be a good brand to start with.
Squeak, maybe you could make this into a lucrative business, or at least a sideline.
Back in the late 70's, early 80's, a friend of mine and I once started a small business writing styles. We sold a few locally, many of them simply drum patterns for Yamaha and Alesis machines. The problem then with arranger styles was the limited memory available on the keyboards. There was only room for one or two user styles at a time, and loading new ones was slow. All that has changed now of course.
Just rambling. . .
DonM

Don.., I've been strongly considering purchasing a high end arranger and creating some modern styles for market. The need's there, but no one is really meeting the demand for it. We can't rely on the arranger makers because they don't want to lose their current market. Still shows though that there is clearly a market for something like the original DJX, but in a pro version. Arranger control over modern styles is very cool. I will say the biggest obsticle for anyone who's wanting to take modern styles to market is that these current arrangers typically lack the kits for it. If I was to do this.., I'd probably get my hands on a Korg PA series simply because of how indepth the synth engine is on those. I would also have to do some serious tweeking to the kits.

I'm a different type of keyboard player I guess. I go from playing orchestral music, to blues, to jazz, to rock, some country, and into hip hop all in one sitting. I think the arranger makers have a chance to tap into a big market..., just depends if they can not be so greedy with pricing.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-30-2008).]

Chas, pretty much hit the "nail on the head" as far as male musician's egos go (me included, I'm sure)!


R.

YEAH BABY! Check out what I found. Now mind you the DJX was from around 1998 so the patterns and grooves are of that time..., but wahooo..., what a blast back to the past with this one of kind arranger keyboard. Scroll down for the sound samples. Check out number 73... SUGARHILL BABY!

You really want to know something funny about Hip Hop and Rap though. I could say "blast from the past" and be talking about last week
http://www.synthmania.com/djx.htm



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-30-2008).]

The start of 73 reminds me more of Another One Bites The Dust!

Amazing though, a lot of those could be being used on current releases! They still sound relatively current. At least more so than an arranger's (the ones I have used) version of the same styles!!

I never realised how "hip" the DJX series was. Gives one the idea that maybe it could be added as an additional keyboard for the arranger. It's certainly small enough!!

Dennis

When it was released the DJX was spot on with its styles. The style set reached back into the day and (present for the late 90's).

I don't hear Queen at all in number 73. To me it has SugarHill written all over it. Try rapping the lyrics to it along with the beat and it'll scream SugarHill.

This site just has a few examples of what was on the keyboard.... Quite a few of the DJX's styles made it into other arranger keyboards from Yamaha. The guy didn't however demo the REAL good kits found only on the DJX....

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-30-2008).]

Hi Squeak

Remember the song and group very well, however I didn’t realise it was that old. (Doesn’t time fly?)

I myself was always into heavy Rock (Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc) and still am today. (Love listening to it live)

Due to the way I was introduced to many types of music by my parents, I also have a very wide selection in music tastes, although Hip Hop and Rap are not part of them. (On the other hand well into my late 30s I could not understand what people saw in Jazz (To me it sounded like somebody who couldn’t play bashing a few notes out) however these days I find I really like jazz and find many of these Jazz players absolutely awesome)

Anyway back to the topic

As Hip Hop/Rap has been out about 30 years, then following the usual cycle, the next generation of arrangers should have a lot more of these styles, with the following 2 – 3 generations of arrangers moving towards predominantly these styles and makeup tools..

Looks like you will not have to wait as long as you think, for an arranger that has what you want.

Regards

Bill

Doubtful Bill... I don't see the arranger makers doing this anytime soon. At the price some of these arrangers go for..., I don't see them doing anything they feel could drive away their biggest buyers.

What'll have to happen is for either of the companies to pick up where the DJX left off. Yamaha in some ways have a rebirth of the DJX line. However, they (for obvious profit) categorized this arranger in their synth line up. The MM6 is somewhat a rebirth of the DJX line. It has very modern styles, has it's roots in the PSR line (made in the PSR factory too), and even has a voice set based on the Motif Classic. Yamaha could have made a few changes to this model and completey relaunched the DJX line and it would have been a big hit. Instead they tried to pass of an arranger keyboard in the Motif family and ended up pissing off a lot of buyers.

Yamaha played the word game with it by using the term patterns instead of styles. The styles on the MM6 aren't as full as you'd find on a typical arranger (as some of them were on the DJX too), but in the end it's an arranger keyboard.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-30-2008).]