So called fakery is used in 98% of music performed & recorded today .....when the computer world took over fakery rose to the top. Nothing you hear is pure anymore in any way shape or form......unless you see someone playing in front of you ACOUSTICLY ONLY NO EFX whatsoever used.....even the vocals w/ efx make the voice trickery to an extent......we all do it ....we all embrace it....we all live with it.....and we all enjoy it... plain & simple. The fakery will get better in years to come for sure, no matter how you want to percieve it.......
R U Ready?

L8tr,

I'm off to another of my fakery gigs this afternoon

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-06-2009).]

You just have to understand the two types of fakery in performing and how they differ. One fakery is the most common one used in 99.9999999999% of all music you hear which is a performance that is somehow "enhanced" through technology by means of keyboards, effects, software, ect.

Then there's the gawd awful form of fakery known as "milli vanillied it". If you fall under the category of "milli vanilli it" then shame on you!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-06-2009).]

Squeak why the surprise?....the latter vanilliesque way of faking is still done every day on stages all over the world.....ever go to Disney & see a show...lip-syncing is KING in many large National & Worldwide Acts....it is a very accepted practice....why? because the bottom line is the audience enjoyed what they see & hear....simple as that.

Yeah, but that depends on who's lips the person is syncing with. Sure there's a lot of lip synching going on today. Many pros out there putting on a stage performance lip to their own recordings though.

Milli Vanilli it applies to the true phonies out there. Good example..., when in college I caught a phony in the act. The school hired out for a musician..., the guy shows up with a keyboard mixer ect. I later realized the guy couldn't play keys..., he had the board plugged in, but tried to hide that the board wasn't hooked up via the output to anything. His vocal tracks ALL Milli Vanillied. Only reason I caught him on the vocal parts was because I recognized the actual singers voice..., who was a college student that I knew. Those are your true phonies...

What I don't understand is why someone who constructs their own "styles" would buy an Arranger. I am already running into walls with an Arranger with CONFORMING to what it can do rather then what I want to do.

Because of the poor MIDI implementation of the T3 and my own laziness Im going to purchase a module. Roland XR Korg M3M Motif XS (probably not the Motif as I already have Yamaha Sounds.)

The Sonic Cell may even do the job although I am curious about the ARPs in the M3M.

First of all, if you close your eyes at a performance, they might as well put on a CD

The audience, unless they have absolutely NO concern whether an act is karaoke, lip synching, or a DJ prancing around (sadly, that's a large percentage these days ) wants to feel that whoever they are looking at is actually playing and singing. Allow the machines to play almost everything, and you are allowing them to assume you aren't playing anything at all...

Force yourself to play as much as you can, and that is a degree of effort that will be easily SEEN, rather than just heard. If the audience just wants to HEAR something like the record, they can hire a DJ... Oh, that's right. We're supposed to do THAT now as well, aren't we?

Is the bloom coming off the rose, Kingfrog?

I remember when you first got the T3, it was all 'this is going to be my 'arranger', just like Bacharach, or Nelson Riddle', or whoever you considered a great arranger in the human sense of the word.

Sadly, as you are beginning to find out (or already probably knew) a machine is no substitute for a talented arranger (and talented players). Sure, you can get close up to a point. But after that it gets harder and harder the further on towards true music you want to take it. If there WERE an arranger that could equal the efforts of talented teams of pros, with all their experience and creativity, you can be assured there wouldn't be a REAL arranger working today!

I'm curious, too... why a module? I would have thought, in a studio environment, that VSTi's are going to take you MUCH further along the road towards realism and expressiveness...

I'll say this without all teh rolling eyes and silly smileys.....when I played Alto Sax & Percussion in HS school orchestras.....we were always taken to big Philharmonic Halls, Academies of Music for Music appreciation exercises. What's that you say?......
You sit in the audience listening to a approx 50pc orchestra...then during the performances they would shut the lights out during certain solos....when the lights went on again you had to write down what instruments were playing the solos. You were tested and graded accordingly. The reason for this was to teach you how to LISTEN to different instruments within the MIX & isolate them so your ears would become sharper....you'd be very surprised at how keen your auditory range, detecting, & ability to perceive sound can improve.

Believe me listen to the darkness & you will be surprised at what you hear !

Nice story, and all, Donny, but what has this got to do with performing..? Other than a school outing, when have you ever been to a live performance of ANY musical ensemble where they darken the entire hall and you have to GUESS what is playing?

You hear a harp arpeggio, and you WATCH the harp guy play it. You hear the tympani, you SEE the guy play it. You hear a great drum solo, you SEE the guy playing it.

A good enough stereo, and you can do exactly the same thing at home. Turn out the lights, listen to a CD. But you wouldn't go to a live performance and WANT to do that, would you?

I think the audience WANTS to see what they are hearing. Let the machines do most of it, and you ARE getting close to that 'hall in the dark'. And they can stay at home and do THAT!

To my mind, there's a HUGE difference between playing a great 'fake' sax part, where the audience can see you making all the bends, playing all the notes, getting 'into' the part (all part of showmanship, eh, Donny?) and hitting 'Ending 4' and hearing one come out of the speakers, all disembodied and stuff...

I'm sorry, but the only audience that doesn't care either way is the same audience that would be just as happy if no-one was up there at all! Or just a DJ, or a guy lip-synching... and I for one don't want to be that guy

Ever since I was kid & experienced what I just told you above ....I always close my eyes and sort out the music parts.
I dont need to SEE someone play...
I want to HEAR them play. Not on SZ of course which is futile ....but anywhere in my journeys in life.