All future tense, dom... 'Will' sound as good.

I (and I think just about everyone here, given your sales to mostly non-European and American countries) want something that 'DOES' sound as good (if not better, at that price!).

The reason I keep things as long as I do is because I chose wisely in the first place, then I rely on my FINGERS to improve how I play, not on technology

I already have a good WS (my K2500S), and I already have a decent VSTi setup for the studio and home. All I need is ONE great arranger that does what it should (sound great and have great styles) the day I buy it. Anything I can add to that afterwards is wonderful, but to HAVE to do all that JUST to sound acceptable is not what I'm looking for.

And please don't kid yourself or us, Dom... if the MS did what most arranger players want it to do, and was affordable, you would be #1 worldwide. You are not. Are we ALL wrong, or could it possibly be you? Give us what we want (rather than what you think we OUGHT to be using) and we'll beat a path to your door.

Give us a VSTi based WS with half baked styles and sounds and arranger features OOTB, and we won't (or rather, haven't)...

"Give us what we want (rather than what you think we OUGHT to be using) and we'll beat a path to your door".

See the US Auto industry for an example.


The way I see it Americans are simply not aware of how good Arrangers are for professional use. I'm 54 been in the music performance industry professionally since 1992. Been playing since the early 70's and writing songs. I saw my FIRST arranger after I retried in 2006, moved the SC, shopped for a Yamaha Baby Grand for the wife. Was hired to work PT and sat in front of a Clavinova, I had never realized th technoliogy was available. I had Triton,DX7s, Proteus,Roland, Alesis keyboards. Bought them at Guitar Centers and some local music stores in San Diego,Las Vegas....I never ran across an arranger. Probably becasue I never entered a PIANO store.

Now My wife who is the real deal and played for major shows reading down charts and as a single for 30+ years never heard of them until I brought a CVP305 home for awhile. She was blown away as was I.

It Seems here in the States People don't mind hearing acts playing along with tracks. whether CD,Sequencers, or Arrangers. To the Audience there are sounds they hear but "no one's" playing. It does not matter their origin. A page from the Karaoke book I suppose which is very popular here.

If I'm reading this board right, in Europe Tracks are not accepted but Arrangers are. I see them as one and the same. It's mostly tracks that are being sequenced, albeit with some more control than over a CD or sequencer. But they are still hearing drums, horns, strings, with no drummer, horn or string section within a 100 feet.

Now i Figured if I never heard of them, and my wife never heard of them. There has to be a whole lot of American people who don;t know the power of them and how flexible and great they sound. I'm find that to be true spending a lot of time in a music store that sells them. Those who do know o them buy them for home use and others don't get to see them used live. I am amazed that of all the places here in Myrtle Beach there are OMB jobs n one uses an Arranger. It's baffling because they are so much better then CDs or sequences in live performance.

All that said It's no small wonder Ketron and Wersi cannot get traction here. YAMAHA TYROS and KORG PA series are minuscule when compared to their Workstations in the US. Roland seems to have given up completely in a market where they have great Workstation sales.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-13-2009).]

I don't mean to change direction on the post but I went to my local GC this afternoon to see if they had any new arrangers and guess what, they didn't. They had one tyros 2 display model on sale for $1000.00. Which I was floored by the price. It was priced to sell because they can't sell them and it's been there for a while,(so go figure.)I asked the sales rep if he would get any other arrangers and his reply was no, only special orders. So I would say that the times are really changing and I believe Roland will stop making arrangers and others like Yamaha, korg & ketron will limit there boards just to one model. Arrangers don't appeal to younger people in america because (1) its easier to play some cds and make the same money, if not more. (2) other kids in highschool get in to the garage band mode and they mostly take interest in guitars, basses and drums and by the time they get to college the fad has worn off. I can only imagine what I'll be playing in ten years.

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 01-12-2009).]

MC..., I'd say the main reason the younger generation has no interest in arrangers is simply because in 2009 the arranger makers STILL don't give a damn about the younger market. Today's arrangers are what's out of touch. It's not the players that's the problem.

I'm not just talking about modern styles like Hip Hop, Rap, Dance, Club, ect.... Younger players today are passing on arrangers because they don't even have styles that reflect modern pop, rock, and alternative.

The problem is the arranger makers. Until they start making these things appeal to younger buyers well..., do the math on this one.... The target market ain't gonna be around forever to support the sales.

To use an arranger first & foremost you have to KNOW HOW to play!

Making most music of today using loop based cut/paste/stretching/vst/or whatever etc, etc, programs on a PC is not playing an instrument which takes years of practice.


So theres no surprise arrangers are made for players. Thats why there are other means for the other stuff.

That kind of echoes what I said originally about seeing OMBs, but no arranger in sight. How do you get the word out? How do you drive up the awareness? Maybe more 'home players' need to get their chops down and get out there. You can all use a bit of spare cash, right guys?

Dnj, you're right on the money, too.

No offense to anyone here (not that they won't take it anyway!) but can you see the arrogance in gloating that you 'need to know how to play' to use an arranger..?

What makes you think that all the professionals that use WS's can't play..? Or that YOUR chops could cut it on a modern rock track or hiphop mix?

No offense, once again, but I've heard the attempts to make contemporary sounding music on an arranger posted here. Pretty laughable, mostly. Good enough if you have no idea what genre you are even trying to sound like, I suppose, but let's face it. No-one is making modern hits on an arranger not because they don't have the chops! They don't make hits on arrangers, because arrangers don't have the sounds and styles needed.

Most young players that ARE playing keyboards these days professionally DO have chops. OK, they might not be YOUR chops, but on the other hand, they aren't making music for YOUR audience, either. You don't have THEIR chops, either!

No, sorry, but it must be said. The only ones around here without chops are a large percentage of arranger users! The 'Simon Cowell Effect' doesn't come out of nowhere..!

Try this... next time you are in a store with some kids looking at keyboards, demo an arranger for them (play something from their century ). Try not to get mad when they laugh their asses off!

But kidding yourself that the kids use WS's because they don't have the chops to play arrangers is absurd. It is the ARRANGERS that don't have the chops to play THEIR music...

Comon Tyros 4

Well said Diki! That's an extremely arrogant assumption to make about "playing skills". It's funny because so often arranger players complain about the stereotypes placed on them by non-arranger players, yet you'll find arranger players turn around and do the same thing and assume it takes more skill to operate an arranger.., yet (at least on this forum) you'll find that a large majority of arranger players here barely scratch the surface of their own keyboards.

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again. You want to really test or show your skill TURN OFF THE AUTO ACCOMP. Then post something for us to hear where you have to REALLY use both hands. You want to show how much skill you have then actually WRITE your entire song YOURSELF from scratch (including the drums). WS players may have arps but they sure as hell don't have their entire backing tracks running as arps. Most of the time you'll find WS players creating the majority of their backing tracks from scratch with the exception of maybe a guitar or bass arp running.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-13-2009).]

Why would I want to turn off the auto accompaniment?

That's why I bought the arranger...to make playing easier.

Pick a style, play a chord, play the melody...get paid.

Rinse and repeat.

Life is good.

Ian