Ian excactly great post!

Ohhhh.., sorry it must have slipped my mind that ONLY ARRANGER PLAYERS make money with their keyboards

I must be out of my mind to think that there are actually OMB workstation players out there making a comfortable living too.

Apprarently some of you guys seem to think the OMB WS player doesn't exist.., and you couldn't be more wrong. These guys make just as much money as you do.., only differnce is they don't have a problem digging into their keyboards to do the work. They don't spend countless hours looking for that perfect style.., they just make the damn track themselves. They too use vocal harmonizers (external).., and you'll often find a second acoustic instrument in their set as well. A lot of talented WS/guitar players out there making a living who actually use a REAL guitar rather than use the arps. I know some who actually sample their own guitar tracks and integrate those into their music rather than rely on the arps

Just like the OMB arranger player they have their own playlists.., take requests.., play popular songs from today and yesterday. They use a WS you guys use an arrnager. Using a WS doesn't make them any less valuable as an entertainer either.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-13-2009).]

No one said that ONLY arranger players make money with their keyboards.

Most of us former band players find it much more fun using an arranger.

I'd gladly take my S900 over any workstation.

Ian

Correctomundo Ian......no one cares how you do it .....but they do care what it sounds like plain & simple. It's music first & foremost....close your eyes & LISTEN that's all that matters.Egos have no place in Good Sounding Music.

Personally, I find there is so much value in being able to just sit down, pick an appropriate style, and play away to my heart's content....no arps to program, no tracks to record, no "work" involved.

I believe that why it's called "playing".

It's nice to be paid to "play".

Workstations do have their place, but not in my rig...the S900 has a 16 track recorder and oodles of multipads if I do have the need to "roll my own".

That's close enough to a workstation for me, and I only have to please me.

Ian

IN 10 years it will be Karaoke and DJs.....I say DJs be cause not many arranger player will take the time to lean popular RAP songs to play at venues where today's youthful music listen will go for entertainment and a night out with the wife. We seem not to as a generation grow out of most popular music we listened to as kids for the most part and still attened their arena shows. Neither has our parents for the most part.

I would say to a youngster to day a qreat DJ or better yet put together a Dance/Karaoke show. Places here pay $45 ab hour for Dance/Karaoke set ups.Start the evening with Karaoke then as the night goes on play "dance" music interspersed wit a few Karaoke subjects. Win Win for the bar. The patron is the "live" entertainer while the music is exactly what the patrons ask for and I can tell you most of it are popular "hip Hop dance songs EVEN THOSE in their 30=s and 40's are requesting along with the usually "beach music" and R&B.

You learn a lot spending a few hours a day in a huge mall based music store a lot of tourists and locals patron..

the only problem with arrangers breaking into the mainstream US youth market is the lack of imagination of the users and the deliberate marketing separation by the manufacturers of work stations and arrangers. An arranger IS A WORKSTATION no ifs or buts. The tool is just a tool. If i wanted to use my arranger as a straight up workstation i can and i will prove it.

Below is a link to one of my favourite up and coming RnB/HipHop artists . Guy by the name Khoa le.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPiJ64JVmw&feature=channel_page

I am going to put my money where my mouth is. I dont have time to sample the instruments that he is using and I dont currently have a recording studio. I will reproduce as close to as possible the groove that he created entirely on my PA1X with the sounds i have onboard and the bits and pieces i have picked up along the way . I have a couple of engagements to prepare for over the next week and my daughter is staying with me this weekend ( my time is her time) so i will post something up hopefully by the end of next week. This is not to prove anything other than the point that an arranger (in this case the PA1X but the same could be done with the T1,2,or 3) can be used as a straight up Workstation.

Spalding..., you have an edge though. Those Korg PA's function more like WS's than the others. Korg IMO has done a great job at integrating the synth/arranger. You don't need to sample sounds really. You can tweek the current sound set.., and write your own styles. You're not going to be dropping any number one charters with an arranger, but with some creative editing you can make some pretty good modern styles using the Korg PA's.....

I listened to that Tube link and you'll be able to pull that off on that Korg man Hell.., you don't even have to really dig too deep into the style seq either. What that guy did sounded like standard 4 bar loop. You could rip that out on your Korg using ONE variation. I'll give you a tip too... I've noticed this on ALLLLL arranger keyboards. One key sound in hip hop is a solid CLAP. Most often arrangers have that clap tuned WAY too high. If your PA allows it.., take one of the preset claps and drop the tuning on it.

If you ever really wanted to take an inexpensive route to adding some killer hip hop kits to compliment that Korg PA.., get your hands on a Zoom StreetBoxx 246..., got one myself and can't put it down!!!!!





[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-13-2009).]

Hi spalding,

I'm a Pa1X Pro owner, too. There's more than enough hiphop/funk/hot sounds (must be that Triton connection) for my needs. Like Ian, I don't care to sit and twiddle knobs, I just love to play the thing. Everyone has their own pet things to do.

Yep. I did it for years. Ended up using Drums on Demand Loops, Guitar loops (either created by myself or purchased, Stings I learned to and could arrange, Bass was my biggest weakness.

Now I can assemble the same "loops" and play them and change them "live" in pre looped patterns. Any leads I do are done like vocals. Live and at the end of the tracking of the loops.

Arrangers like sequencers don't replace talent they are TIME SAVERS. No 20 something should be using an Arranger. they should be diving into a full blown workstation.

The first thing that attracted me to arrangers were the quality of the voices. When I heard them in the style players the decision was easy. But I will still have to write entire arrangements for some music. Some songs don;t lend themselves to loops.
Others are completely legato in places.

Talent is not reserved for those who play a particular keyboard. Nor is it self assured.
Talent is like the Right of Way....You never "have" it. It can only be yielded to you.

I may find Usher talentless but his success belies my opinion but does not disqualify it.