Yo Diki (and anybody else who thinks they have an ear for good authentic brass). This is the new ARX03 Brass board (for my FG7). Could you share your honest assessment. http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=987&page=video

BTW, are failed musicians elgible for TARP money? If so, then it's goodbye Casio, hello Audya . Me and you, Fran. All the way. It's bonus time, baby.



chas

One of these days, Fran is gonna kick my butt .

chas

He HAS been working out lifting that G70...

The board... Thanks for posting this, I went there when the board was first announced, but there was no video demo (just an audio one). I still shake my head and wonder why these companies think a rushed live NAMM video is sufficient to sell a product like this. Are things SO bad they can't put a studio demo together?

Another thing that worries me enormously about this demo is, listen to the full played demo (about 2/3 of the way through. Then go and listen to the audio demo (done by a different person). They are identical. Was this guy just miming?

But, anyway, let's leave all that aside. This thing is revolutionary! The ability to spread the voices over different parts (although I couldn't tell if it was a dynamic split, or just fixed points) is the key to brass realism.

The sounds themselves seemed OK, brass was pretty good, t'bones awesome, that flugel he played sounded a bit too trumpet-y at times, but that might just be the player. The saxes seemed good for what they were doing (section work), but at times I would have liked to hear a softer, airier sound. But the ability to have the board revoice your playing to match the area and density of chord is something quite new... Or actually, it isn't! My old Oberheim XPander had a mode where you could stack three patches on one note, and then if you played a chord, one would go high, one would go low, one in the middle. Or the 'Unison' mode an old Jupiters and several other synths, where all available voices would play if you played one note, then it would divisi as you played more notes... I have long held that these modes would work incredibly well on a ROMpler. Seems like finally someone agrees!

There was SO much about this board that this little demo fails to go into, and some pretty important questions. First, for me would be, does it do tutti/divisi in realtime? In other words, a trumpet, a sax and a t'bone. Play one note, they all play it tutti (with appropriate transposition), play two or three, they split up. It's one of the hallmarks that distinguish real players from sampled patches. It will be GREAT if this does this.

Another would be, can you use a breath controller...?

But overall, I'm pretty impressed with this technology. It takes a different tack to SA, but addresses some important issues about voicing brass correctly live. If you only have one hand for the part, getting the correct voicing on a sax/tbn/trp voicing is next to impossible over anything but the tiniest of ranges. The spread is too far to play, and octave tutti is only realistic for a small range (then the tpt or sax would jump octaves).

$450? Well, if you do a lot of jazz, R&B, soul and the like, yes, I can see it being worthwhile. But it DOES bring up an important shortcoming in the FantomG series. Only TWO slots. Already three boards available, more to come (pray for a VK-8 ARX board!). Didn't the FantomX have FOUR SRX slots, and the rack have SIX? It would be tough deciding between Drums, Rhodes and Brass as to which you need the LEAST!

For you, chas... if it is in your budget, I'd say go for it. Between the SA stuff on the Tyros (still got that?) and this, I think you could do some pretty amazing stuff. Let us know if you do go for it...

Chas, that is absolutely the best Brass sounds I ever heard on a keyboard....That includes Yamaha..

I think we are seeing the future in sound design...that Roland is obtaining....Earlier this week we heard the V-piano...that everyone that demoed ..says it is the best piano ever....both software and hardware..(Ernie Rideout's comments..

Chas, you have empty slots on your Fantom...start filling them up....start with the Brass board....If you don't..I am coming down there and kick your butt..

PS: why did you need Diki's view...you heard and know that was the best brass you've heard...ever..

lets not forget it all means noithing if you can't play them correctly

I guess Ernie Rideout doesn't know that Ian is the last word on whether a piano is any good or not!

And chas asked my opinion because he knew I'd be giving it, anyway (and I am a brass player)

Couple more things I'd like to know... Can you use the D-Beam as a 'virtual plunger' on muted patches (that would be AWESOME!)?

And do the saxes and brass have the 'SuperNATURAL' legato/staccato ability similar to SA? All the product page says about it is the auto voicing thing, which could just mean the splits, etc.. We know that Roland HAVE been working on an SA equivalent, and have heard some early efforts in the new Atelier organs...

But this thing at least has the 'potential' to help those not schooled in brass voicings to do a better job, Donny. Just like SA helps those with poor legato technique do a better job with sax emulation. It isn't JUST whether you can play it well. It's whether you can get a bit of help there, too!

I am anxious to try it (my local store stocks FantomG. Can't wait to hear it!).

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-09-2009).]

Correctomundo, Donny.

Also, these brass sounds aren't nearly as user friendly as Yamaha SA1 and SA2 voices.

But, when you're second best...you have to try harder.



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 02-09-2009).]

Fran, I agree with you completely and that will definitely be the first add-on board for the FantomG. Why Diki's opinion? He's a brass player, he has a strong recording background, and lastly, we exchange rough tracks for critiquing and I have found his comments and observations to be spot on. I love doing old R&B/Soul stuff with Ray Charles/Quincy Jones-style horn voicings. Also, jazz funk organ with horn stabs. I love good 'in-the-pocket' rhythm and nothing punctuates that like a good brass section.

I also agree with Diki about that Flugelhorn being too 'trumpety'. I had chucked it off to my having listened to too much 'Miles' flugelhorn, and that maybe this was the way it was supposed to sound. Glad someone else picked it up as well. Still sounds great, though.

I also agree with Donny that you'd need to play it correctly to get the most out of the 'section' effect. But that's not a limitation of the instrument, just the skill of the player. But even in my klutzy hands, it'll sound better than what I'm using now (I tend to favor the 'horn' patch on the PA1x Pro although I have lots of other options).

I'll pick one up when they become available. My wife doesn't get alarmed as long as the package is small .

chas

So tell us about when you actually played this, Ian... because that's one hell of an assumption (no capitalization necessary!) from someone that probably only heard this today.

Remember, all of Yamaha's SA stuff (or most of it) is concentrated on getting good SOLO performances. Most of them are monophonic. You CAN'T play them in a section. Not live, anyway. This is the first thing I've seen in a realtime keyboard that does anything about SECTION work.

As an arranger player, this technology is very promising. Few of us have two hands to spare for big wide (correct) brass voicing. Something like this, in an arranger, would be at LEAST as useful as any SA stuff.

Keep gazing into your crystal balls, Ian... But pack in trying to pass it off as FACT Once again, you show your zealotry. If Yamaha had introduced this (or the V-Piano ) you would be crowing about it's achievement...

Thanks Diki...I do have a zealous appreciation for things Yamaha....why shouldn't I...you have the same fanaticism for things Roland?

You've got to stop pointing that finger, son, or at least try and conceal the three pointing back.

Yamaha is where it's @ as far as brass goes...especially in the solo voices.

The saxes on the ARXO3 sound very weak....but at ONLY $450 it's not nearly as ridiculous as a $6000 stage piano with one sound.

I needed a good chuckle...thank you.

Ian