Guys Guys Guys,

I love that someone who didn't go off site at the NAMM show to the Hilton Demo Room and ACTUALLY SEE and/or TRY the V-Piano in the correct environment can say ANYTHING about this instrument with any degree of autority at all! Basing your opinion on Brand preference and or web demos in this case is a silly silly mistake....reserve your opinion until you actually sit down and PLAY the V....Then and only then come give your honest review....

I did it...TWICE... on the second journey over I actually played the V-Piano for a while...messed with the editor and the front panel.....Tried making a few differnt pianos both possible (Steinway type w/jazz voicing and Bosey type for soft concertos)and Impossible....a 9 ft Grand with 3 strings for EVERY NOTE wrapped in Silver instead of copper....now that was COOL!

It Blows away ANYTHING I have ever heard or played...plays like a dream as the new PHAIII action is "like butta"....

Who cares that it doesn't have a Clav, Wurly or Any other sound accesible from the front panel....the piano kick ass on everything out there...(digital that is) I will always have a place in my heart for a NWS Schimmel 213 (7 foot) I LOVE THAT ACOUSTIC....but I swear I came within an eyelash of making it on the V....

Nice Brass sounds Chas. I dont know if its value for money though. Thats my only reservation. Wait and see what other expansion boards come out before you imnvet amny more in the Fantom G.

From Memory you were not overly enthusiastic about the fantom keyboard and until you get excited about it , then spending more money on it just to get a few sounds that should have ben on the instrument in the first place might leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-10-2009).]

Spalding, in my heart I know you're right.....but man-o-man, is that brass sweet. To be honest (and fair), I think that my main problem with the FantomG is that I'm not particularly WORKSTATION oriented. I'm more SYNTH oriented. Most of the features that make a WS a WS (like on-board sequencers and samplers) are wasted on me, making them overpriced synths for me. I tend to judge them based solely on their on-board sounds (unfair to the designers) and in that regard they don't fare much better than your garden-variety sound module, especially if you've got fairly sophisticated recording capabilities.

The FantomG in particular, being strong in the 'loop', 'arp', 'rhythm pattern', 'synth sound', etc. dept., is an excellent tool for certain types of modern music (but not for what I do). Although intuitive, I don't think it's very good as a 'performance' KB (as in 'live'). Some functions can only be gotten to quickly with a mouse and most 'live' functions require a heavy dose of pre-programming to function smoothly on a gig.

Does the 'Brass' board make sense? Maybe, if you've already shelled out for the board and intend to keep it (I believe it really does have some strong future potential for those willing to spend a little more money and invest lots of time learning the board in-depth). You know, in for a penny, in for a pound. Truth is, I can't justify any of it financially, working just 1 gig a week, so it's mostly a case of how much musical pleasure will I get out of it. Oh well, it's that or leave it to the grandkids. Sorry kids .

chas

I just suspect Chas that in a few months time that board will be gathering dust like the tyros was. Have you heard the Synth and brass sounds on the Korg M3 since DNc was introduced ? although you already have the PA1X , if you sold the Fantom G and bought the M3 instead you would have access to all the great new DNC sounds with the latest expansion updates (which all come free by the way ) , you would be familiar with the Korg Operating system so the learning curve (which i believe is whats putting you off the Fantom G) would be much less steep . You would still get amazing synths and very realistic brass sounds and i bet the whole transaction would cost you less than paying the extra $450 for the ARX brass sound board.

listen to this http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/m3/audio/S010_Saxo-5-ophones_EX2.mp3

Especially this one
http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/m3/audio/S000_Mighty_Edelweiss_EX3.mp3

and this one
http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/m3/audio/S010_Saxo-5-ophones_EX2.mp3




[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-10-2009).]

Well, LUVINMYG70, if we are to go by your user name, you are a Roland fanboy, at least as far as the G70...

Most of us have brand preferences, in fact some people don't "buy" brands...as much as "join" them....and no doubt I'm as guilty as some, but having a "stage piano" (the V-Piano is advertised as such) with the only sound easily accessible being an "acoustic piano" (yes, I know it is variable) would be a limitation to most people, regardless of what brand's name is on their T-shirt...

Perhaps your needs preclude an easily accessible Rhodes or Wurly patch, but most stage piano players who require/use other sounds on a gig besides acoustic piano wouldn't agree with you.

I don't have a place in my heart for a NWS Schimmel 213 (7 foot) but I do have a genuine fondness for a digital stage piano with Rhodes and Wurly patches as well as a choice of several Acoustic piano sounds.

A one trick pony may work for you, but it's neigh good for me.



Ian

For boards that can’t use VSTs, or uses that don’t want to add a computer for VSTs then it probably is good value.

However a good quality laptop with VSTs will leave the G and its expansion boards in the dust, and you won’t be limited so much on the number you can use.

Interestingly most of the features showcased in the demo could quite easily be added to most arrangers without requiring much additional ROM space.

Regards

Bill

Scott Tibbs of Roland U.S. wrote and produced that song for the ARX-03 Brass demo. That is the audio version of the demo on the website. The video demo, on the other hand, sounds like the guy used a couple midi phrase tracks from the original song by Scott Tibbs. The guy at NAMM apparently had imported the midi phrase tracks into the Fantom G and played them back using the song player while playing most of the parts live along with those one or two midi phrase tracks.

All I can say is it sounded really, really, really GOOD! REALLY good..

And no offense to spalding but those korg brass demos, in my opinion, are in a league "below" the Fantom G ARX-03 brass demo.

What I'm thinking (and I could be wrong) is that Roland is using some of the same technology they used in the V-Piano for the ARX-03 brass card. Instead of "Piano" they are simply incorporating it into "Brass" type of sounds. Furthermore, if this is any indication of "crossover" functionality within the V-Piano technology i.e. *Physical Modeling* used in other instrument sound types - the floodgates could shortly fling open for Roland where Roland trumps (strong arms) the competition, along with SAV, RX, DNC, SuperSolo, and everything else with it. By that I mean, if the sound realism that has been achieved in the V-Piano by Roland could then eventually be used for any and every other type of instrument sound found on a keyboard such as Brass , Strings, Organ, Guitar, etc., etc., then it could, theoretically, leave every other sound realism platitude reached so far by other manufacturers i.e. Yammie, Korg, Kurzweil, or whoever - in the dust and frantically trying to catch back up with Roland.

Yamaha and Korg or even Ketron or Kurzweil could, in the meantime, theoretically find the elusive holy grail of sound realism technology (although Roland seemingly may already possess it, eh? ) and they could eventually surpass Roland's marvel - but may prove unattainable or an unrealistic undertaking. Although not impossible mind you, because there is ALWAYS room for improvement. And Yamaha in particular seems to be very pronounced and aggresive in the area of R&D technology advancement and involvement.

Roland seems to have just upped the bar considerably though in my opinion.

And so far, all the others can only look on in amazement from the sidelines, with their jaws, no doubt, dropping in the process. That's how I feel about it anyway.

All the best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 02-10-2009).]

IMO to compare the Roland V piano and brass board to a Kurzweil is like comparing a Ford to a Rolls Royce, the Roland’s not even close.

As far as hardware goes Kurzweil is IMO as good as it gets, with the rest squabbling over what’s left.

As an addition to my last post, here is a VST that costs the same as the Roland card, can be set up to do what the Roland does, and then do a massive amount more.

One thing is for sure though, whatever you want is probably already out there somewhere.

Regards

Bill

Where to start... well, for one thing, I have a K2500 fully expanded, and a Triton (and several older things like DX7, Ensoniq, XPander, etc.) so I don't think ANYONE (except Ian, who is only doing it because it's COLD up there, too cold for any other sport! ) could call me a Roland 'fanboy'.

I have NO affiliation with any company (unlike Ian), and use whatever my ears hear is the best (if I can afford it). My admiration for the V-Piano, or ARX-03 brass board would be equally great if they came from Yamaha (unlike Ian).

Several people are still not QUITE getting the strength of the ARX board. For one thing, unlike SRX boards, it is an entire synth on a board. In other words, it has it's own polyphony, effects an OS. This means, unlike just adding SAMPLES to an existing board, they can also add capabilities not in the parent board's OS.

And this is where the main difference lies between SA and this thing. SA concentrates on SOLO sounds. Most of them are monophonic. You CAN'T PLAY CHORDS... And for those few sounds you can play chords in SA, it doesn't revoice them. Merely fudges with the attack samples. The ARX board does some revoicing tricks that SA has nothing like, all designed to make playing a SECTION in realtime possible. No matter your corporate allegiance, you might at least acknowledge that this technology is unique...

As to the issue of sounds... abacus, I'm afraid, coming from the perspective of someone with a Kurzweil, that even my G70 has some brass and woodwind stuff that beats the K. And the K has some stuff that beats the G70. It's more of a push than your description of overwhelming superiority. But again, that's only the opinion of someone that actually OWNS both pieces!

And the M3 demo? From listening to this, I still get the impression that Korg haven't yet fully developed the sound library to utilize the DNC capabilities they only just came out with. Even the expansion library is mostly ported over from the Oasys, which didn't have DNC either. There is a weird disconnection between some of the samples, where bends and scoops sound amazing, but don't always seem to be part of the same performance as the normal notes.

Yamaha have approached this differently, by releasing very few (comparatively) SA and SA2 sounds, but developing entire sample sets for them first, that are very consistent between the different types of nuances and inflections. It's less open (you can't edit them) and so far, no expansion library at all (we still haven't been told whether Yamaha intend to sell extra SA2 voice packs for the T3, or even if is CAPABLE of addressing the SA engine from the sample section), which, unless it is copy protected, I can't see how Yamaha could possibly profit from this VERY expensive sampling and programming project with piracy of styles and samples as rampant as it is... Time will tell, I guess.

Oh, and Mike... no there isn't ANY modeling going on here. Nothing to do with V-Piano at all. It is all still just samples. But, just like SA, it is HOW those samples are triggered that makes all the difference. But at least our palette has been improved. I think I still give the nod to Yamaha's SA2 sounds for solo realism, as scant as they are (watch out, Yamaha, Korg's system is open and up and coming, quickly!), but for section stuff in realtime (as opposed to using GIGA or a sampler and doing it part by part), as a brass player, big band enthusiast, and regular small section player, I have to say, I've never heard anything do THAT trick before...

Kudos... (tuning forks or not... )

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-10-2009).]

It does. I think it's close to criminal to release a new board and then, within a few months, release an expensive 'must have' kind of sonic enhancement for it. Although I like the idea of having an upgradeable architecture, the fact that it was available so soon after the release tells me that the technology had to have been available for inclusion within the basic instrument. It's like Yamaha putting the SA voices on an expansion board and selling it to Tyros users (although, come to think of it, that might have been cheaper than a new T2 or T3 : --ummmm, I'll have to think about that one). I guess it's the timing that makes it feel sleazy. It doesn't help that over on the Roland Clan forum you've got 'fanboys' bowing and singing Roland's praises for what some might consider a questionable marketing tactic.

Oh lordy, I'm so conflicted. Where's my checkbook .

chas