Look, that's the main difference between Yamaha and everybody else right there in a nutshell... Mega voices, and SA2 solo voices.

Live styler, AFAIK, does not do the Mega stuff correctly yet, and copying Yamaha's Mega voices brings up copyright issues (remember that old topic? )... not to mention OS features that make them work (like only transposing notes inside a certain range).

What's the point of doing Yamaha styles in a software form, if all you get are wanky soundfont sounds, no Mega stuff (or off-kilter ones), no SA2 voices and something that sounds like a 90's PSR (and a cheap one at that)? Just so you can play Yamaha styles?

C'mpn, fer Pete's sake! When was the last time you heard a software arranger that sounded as good as a T3? Or a PA2. Or a G70. Or an S900. Or a cheap Casio!

Translated styles SUCK... period. And the better the style, the worse the translation sucks. The sound and the style are inextricably linked. The MS needs it's own styles, for it's own soundset.

And, if it wants to really be an arranger, rather than a WS with undeveloped arranger styles and sounds on board, it needs a top level VSTi soundset already on board when sold, and styles written precisely for that sound set. Just like every other arranger does.

Expecting the customer to have the skill to do something only a handful of people in the world can do well is insane. Might as well sell us the components to the MS, and go 'design the thing yourself' There are probably about as many arranger players capable of doing that as there are arranger players capable of making their own soundset and styles...

I think if you make a software device that mimmics your hardware, it could work...

But that surely would take a huge ammount of time.....

I think Diki makes a lot of sense here. Just my gut feeling though as I am no expert in this area.

Without its native styles, the MS is not a USABLE arranger to most of us in this forum.

But maybe "someone" here is working on that and MS is mum about it.

If MS has 200 great native styles and priced below $1500, I think it will sell a lot.

Or maybe a stripped down version for less than $1000 and I will probably buy it. It will protect me from obsolescence for many years to come. With styles upgraded every so often and maybe even for sale - it is like having a new arranger. Then Yamaha/Korg/Roland will really be in trouble.

Here are so many possibilities. That what is inside and what is possible, nobody can not use.
True MS is having only ca 200 styles included ex works. But I thing Dom can give you additional styles if you want. (2 banks of style)

If you want TOP STLYES developed with some special VST's than you need only to see what type of VST and what type of music you are playing and I can tell you it is easy to reconnect jacks and it plays different.

If you say that style pop funk that I use in my song is bad than you are really wrong. I can show you how bad it looks on G70 or in PSR9000 with factory preset. But this what you listen (if you did) is GM standard of MS nothing else except right hand where is B4 II - Native instruments ( here is link: http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=b4ii ) and RealStrat-MusicLAB (here is link: http://www.musiclab.com/products/realstrat_info.htm )

And price:
Good PC is cost $1500 and where is music card TFT LCD, buttons and good keyboard extra plates for controlling all this things, housing and finally big fish - software etc. common this things cost a lot. I thing Dom is selling this really good machine - MEDIASTATION at really discounted price because he love this approach and he want to invite to cooperate with us freaks. I'm really excited with MS and I'm using it all the time and in all my playing in this 3 years I can tell you I'm satisfied with it a lot but from start not now. Now is more friendly for use and more as you says keyboard from box


So DIKI and others please do not blame MS. You need first to try it and than you can say something.
Even if you will try it will not help you, because I thing you are GUY FROM BOX

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 02-17-2009).]

WOW!!!! And then you wonder why arrangers do not sell well and appear to be declining.
When you have persons insulting and basically calling arranger players not competent and well rounded electric keyboard users (if you have an electrical instrument that allows you to create and you say you can not then you are not competent), then what do you expect the manufactures to develop? What do you expect other electric keyboard players to think about arranger players? What do you expect your audience to think about your competency on your instrument when you yourself are saying that you are not competent?


We always comment on the bad perception that arrangers have but what do you expect when people on this forum degrade and belittle arranger players.
Look you know what could probably happen, arranger manufacturers may say if the few arranger players out there just want a glorified karaoke player, then they would oblige and only manufacture keyboards with styles, devoid of creative features and basically be a mid range arranger $1500 and under. Others who want a more expressive instrument would not be able to get that in an arranger. So they would do to that person what Yamaha is doing to the 76 key arranger market (giving them the finger).

We basically could kiss the TOTL arrangers good buy.

So by insulting and belittling arranger players, you are helping the demise of the arranger.

Hi Magic Alfa. Thanks so much for your demo. I congratulate you on making a style on the MS and it certainly shows that you have a good grasp of style making. Please dont take the following words as a put down because i am not trying to do that and i am not trying to be condescending. You cant hear my tone of language over the internet :-) .

The pop style you produced could have been done on any arranger and may in fact have sounded even better on a standard arranger because :

1.It would not have used just GM sounds in the style
2: They sounds would have been more evenly balanced because the instruments have a basic but general EQ setting.

What your demo showed very clearly is that your efforts on the MS yeilded no better results than what you could have produced on any entry level arranger with your skill level.

And for those of you who have truly bought into the open system argument. have a look at Magic afa's file on esnips. In the true spirit of openess he posted a link to some of his work (i believe) here is the link to his work if you missed it. If it isnt his work my apologies in advance
http://www.esnips.com/doc/bb348397-9c88-497d-972c-622f500b6f07/Lionstracs280808

I dont think Magic alpha has aproblem wiyth me drawing your attention to his work as it in openly available on his esnips folder.

I believe he is an experienced MS user. He understands the technicalities of using the instrument etc so no excuses in terms of ability to use the instrument. Have a listen and then honestly ask yourself these simple questions :

1. forget the possibilities....does this sound like a top of the line arranger/keyboard ? Be honest!
2. Does it sound as good or better than the instrument you currently have....what ever instrument that is.
3. Could you reproduce these styles yourself on a basic entry level arranger?

I repeat i am not trying to put you Down Magic alfa. There is nothing personal intended here. The point i am making is that great styles (yamaha level, korg level etc) dont just fall out of the sky. They have to be crafted and making the argument (from Liontracs point of view) that having access to better sounds will automatically mean having the ability to create better styles is just not true. Its not just me making the point, with respect ,your demo's make the point. Enjoy whatever ever you play and please keep making styles and have fun with your instrument. It was very open and honest of you to share your work . Once again thanks.


[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-17-2009).]

Dear Spalding,


First thanks for your post here.

If said something bad than my deep, deep apologies. I know that all keyboards are good. Yes styles and soundest selecting take a lot of time and devotion.

But what I want to tell you that I used style with my GM GIGA sounds (exchangeable) and nothing else. When I use all this great tools like VST and compatibile tools, than is this power, power machine.

That is all the time my point of view.

Best regards.
Magica Alfa

i listened to all your demos Magic Alpha including the ones where you have used VST guitars and the B3 organ. I wish the theory of having access to better sounds= better styles was true but clearly this is not he case.

You have never said anything bad as far as i am aware sir. You are just enthusiastic about your instrument. I cant blame you for that ! I love my PA1X more every day and the only additional content i have bought is the excellent Prodata pianos. all the other sounds and styles i have onboard came absolutely free. only my imagination limits me and that expands not by buying more keyboards or more sounds but simply by playing music and listening to more music. My skills are geting beter and my familiarity with the instrument i use is getting so much better. Neither Korg , yamaha or roland and now eben the latest Ketron Offering has tempted me sufficiently to immediately by another instrument. Thats not to say i wont ever be tempted thouigh...... :-) Good luck mate.

With the high quality sound of most top end arranger companies today........switching around, buying new KB's frequently is slowly becoming a thing of the past because they are all so close in quality, sound & features.....what is left is just personal needs & preference.....

Not everyone wants the same in an arranger/organ. (Just be thankful you have a diverse selection)
Most uses however that have tried an open keyboard for any length of time find it difficult to go back to a hardware board, mainly because they do not allow them to use the sounds and features that they get used to.
Are they for everybody, of course not, but then neither are hardware boards.
So choose what you are happy with, if others don’t like it or think its crap, so what, their not playing it.
The only point I would like to make is to go and try one before you make a decision. (If there are not many dealers in your area, you will always find plenty of owners around who would be happy to let you try it)(This applies to all boards)

Regards

Bill