Kingfrog you'd be surprised know how many people are gigging with Logitech Z computer speakers? .....do a SZ search here ....

Kingfrog....a computer speaker!!!! what in the world are you talking about?

For someone in the business you sure are not on top of the game...

Some facts for you..The 802 with an 8" speaker has a larger 50 ounce voice coil compared to the 30 ounce on the Mackie 350, and the 802 has a inch and 3/4 HF driver compared to the Mackie's inch and a 1/4..

And to correct another of your in accurate statements..Th Mackie 350 is 165 watts for woofer and 30 watts for HF driver,,a total of biamped ..195 watts....The 802 is 200 watts...Mackie loses in a lot of comparisons...I would suggest you try something before condemning a product that you have zero info ....

I mentioned a long time ago, I liked Mackie..so I am not slamming them...but I am illustrating by comparison what these guys can do...including kicking Mackies butt...

Don't take Kingfog so seriously, Donny.... someone as knowledgeable as he would surely not overlook the excellent value and performance of the Z5500.

I'm sure they weren't intended for "pro" use from the manufacturer, but that doesn't stop enterprising and clever performers from taking advantage of them for gigging.

It's kinda the same as "home" keyboards like the Tyros and G70 etc. that get used by adroit performers for professional gigs and/or recording.

If there's nothing wrong with a home keyboard being played on pro gigs and/or recording sessions, why should it matter if someone uses a "home" speaker system for the same?

Surely Kingfog isn't that image conscious...how could he be?

He performed as a facsimile of the genuine article, and he was relatively successful.

Ian

I am convinced that some people are "GEAR SNOBS" ... if it's not BIG enough or HEAVY enough, it's not GOOD enough ...
BOSE can BLOW PEOPLE AWAY with 6 inch speakers ... why can't others ???????
Maybe you aren't going to blast out an arena or 500 person hall with these small systems, but they do a HELL of a lot better job than a lot of people give them credit for ... and those are usually people who haven't even TRIED them because they are not BIG enough or HEAVY enough ...
t.

UH no I wouldn't..Not anymore.

Indeed. and I learned what real sound systems were and what is worthy of presenting one's music through. Image is not important when delving one's product with regard to the sound. People forget the SOUND engineer is the most important member of the crew for an Artist. When people cut corners on that which is the ONLY connection between themselves and their audiences I have to gasp. Unless one is playing is a classroom there is no place for any Speakers that can be bought at Radio Shack


Top brands are top brands for a reason. Beta 58 heads are in riders for a reason, I know some players volunteer at Retirement homes and community centers. They play the S900s and use Stage PAS300s. I Understand that. I don't understand setting up a pair of Computer speakers in a professional situation where the client is spending money for entertainment. And people get upset when attendees ask Karoke type questions.

I am not a gear snob but sound is one area I won;t cut corners, I certainly am not going out on a gig without the best possible system for the gig. In our case its the Bose for EVERY gig. Large and small, When we need more coverage we will buy another Bose System. Im not Powered Speaker fan except for monitoring. I find them harsh and very limited in the lateral range and i have never heard on that does not need a Subwoofer.

Noi Im am not on top of the game where people are using Computer Speakers for professional gis. I missed that revelation and contemporary invention.

Fran with all due respect there is no such thig as a 50 oz "Voice coil" (Numbers don't mean anything though, your words)12 "speakers usually demand large magnets of the larger mass of the cone and voice coil structure. In large big speakers, the voice coil may be 2" or more in diameter. IN your case the size of voice coil is not even mentioned only the magnet weight.Large magnets allow the speaker coil to be placed a deeper in the magnetic forces which makes the voice coil travel over a longer range allowing for MORE cone travel moving more air for MORE VOLUME, not DEEPER bass. Big magnets LOUDER sound THATS what I think you are noticing and loving so much. However adding weight is routinely used to fool the consumer as well. The ole "Weight = Qualty" syndrome. I have to wonder how larges in that voice coil......Like a large diaphragm mike the larger the better


The larger the voice coil and especially cone the SLOWER the driver moves. Drivers that reproduce 30HZ HAVE to move at an extremily slow speen. Not something capable of an 8 or even 12 " cone"
.

I certainly did not imply in any way that you were a "gear snob', but I did suppose that
considering your extensive experience in the production of music, that perhaps considering a "home system" for certain venues would not be a stretch....but perhaps I spoke too soon.

You would consider, and have used a "home keyboard" for professional grade audio production, so perhaps you might seem a bit hypocritical to many of us here on SZ in where a high grade "home" product can be applied in one situation, and yet not in another.

I don't cut corners either, and my well finished and equally well received product and my above average monetary compensation for my employment reflect this work ethic and attention to detail...but I use what works best for me, and would not worry about what others think of the equipment I use.

Having no allegiance to a certain way of production has always been an advantage not a disadvantage to my career...many times my straying from the "norm" or "industry standard" has resulted in a more unique product, and because it sounded, or was expressed differently than the other "cookie cutter" methods, it stood out from them enough to get the right kind of attention.

I have experimented extensively with the Bose (they make a high quality product)...and used the system on both Roland and Yamaha keyboards...a single system compared with a stereo setup of the Bose (two complete systems; one for left and right) gives up way too much in sound and detail for my ears, and also the ears of those who are in the sound business longer than I.

That is why I find it a bit difficult to accept that someone with your production values, would not want the instrument to sound at it's finest, rather than endure a one dimensional and poorly animated arranger audio that is emitted from a single Bose system.

A single Bose system was meant/designed for single performers (or individual band members)...and clearly not for the complexities of an arranger/workstation which is essentially a full band in stereo, and it shows it's inadequacies relatively early in the game...the only real or acceptable way around it, is to use two systems in stereo, an avenue I have considered, as I buy sound systems far less often than the other tools of my trade.

I'm sure those who use a single Bose system (mono) are very satisfied with the unit's performance, as evidenced by the several posts here on SZ, but there are an equal number of us that have tried it in mono and found it very lacking...I want the best system possible(and transportable) for my needs, because, let's face it...we are ultimately "playing the speaker" and a single Bose is just too much of a compromise...stereo pianos, effects and other DSP like rotary speaker, are quite lackluster if you listen to the single system compared to the stereo double system.

I don't "hard pan" my instruments so that there is a distinct sweet spot...I pan just enough to separate and widen the dispersal...a single Bose does not let me do this to an acceptable level, and I would consider it "cutting corners"...I know you don't, but it is me and my audience/listener that I intend to please....not you, or anybody else.

The Logitech Z-5500 is an awesome system, certainly designed for another purpose than for "live" use on an arranger...but it works admirably in both applications.

The single Bose system is also designed for another purpose rather than for use on an arranger keyboard...it works far less laudably in it's other role, in my opinion.

I still find it difficult to believe you would compromise your sound, considering you come across as a person that would not skimp in any area of production...but, I'll get over it, as I'm sure you will too.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 02-23-2009).]

Have you guys ever listened to a CD through good headphones? Did you hear any bass?
Again, why does someone want to criticize gear they have not personally used or heard?
DonM

We have NEVER taken the Tyros on a Gig. Not that I would not consider it. We don;t need it. My wife takes 88 every time. If there are stairs she even takes the smaller Casio Previa 320 by necessity more than choice, If not its the RD700.

We had a Mackie /JBL MR system which became too heavy. The best system we could fine fixing that weight issue without sacrificing fidelity, were the Bose. . We DO use the Tyro to create some of the track parts for backing. When Play with her I would take The Tyros but only to play lead parts and a few SMFs I may use use. We already have her backing tracks on a notebook.
We have NEVER taken the Tyros on a Gig. My wife takes 88 every time. If there are stairs she even takes the smaller Casio Previa 320 by necessity more than choice, If not its the RD700.



We do think about what those who pay us think of our gear, but more importantly the SOUND. In they sometimes complain about other acts and their choice PA Systems. I believe one's gear is an indication of one's commitment to superior product and shows they are not afraid to invest in themselves. Contrary to poular believe F&B guys and Entertainment Directors are not stupid




That's a good thing for you, unfortunately we don't know what exactly is a detriment or help to our careers except when a venue extends our contracts or has us back as soon as possible. The Bose neatly falls "outside the norm" but is always received with open arms in fact the Casio Cruise where my wife plays she recommended and and receive two Bose tower installations after demoing her own. Since she is put doors on the top deck of a sea going vessel she did not want to bring ours. They are holding up better then expected for the past8 months now outdoors!! They get the right kind of attention......None.




My largest concern is and will always be. ALL the audience member hearing the EXACT SAME MUSIC. ANY pro live mixer has the same mission. The SAME program heard the same way form anywhere in the room.

I can't agree with small Computer speakers being a viable alternative to anything professional except perhaps in a 200 SF room of 30 people.



What you consider compromise I considered well thought out based on my experience with far larger venues and many professional sound mixer conversations and (monitor pissing matches LOL never forget he has the "suck button"). You will find at the pro level most experienced sound mixers run stereo systems in dual mono. They will tell you that that the ENTIRE listening area must have equal coverage of both the left and right sides, at pretty equal levels to be effective as your home stereo. Even then comb filtering can result if one is not careful but this thing about stereo being the end all is purely psychological based on experiences that happen mostly in small places like the car and the home.

Go to a Stereo Eagles concert and sit on either side. you will pay for the whole show but hear 1/2 the harmonies unequally balanced some of the music missing or terribly unequal in volume. In my early days back in the late 70's I worked for the local IATSE and worked as a Union laborer,cable puller, truck loader and Super Trooper operator for every bands that that came into the San Diego Sports Arena in the 70's,The only band I can remember that came in with an discreetly audio separated system was the Quadraphonic concert Pink Floyd used on the DSOM tour. All Clair Bros and Showco Sound contractors. Mono Mono Mono.... I believe that is still true today for 90% of all live shows and with good reason.

That said my wife even prefers stereo, but again thats from HER stand point exactly between the mix. She is not hearing what those siting way off axis are hearing.
Old habits are hard to break even when the audience benefits more than the artist.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-23-2009).]