Hi Frank,
I gather you've got your system where you want it, are you still considering Garriton's GM set when it finally arrives?
I gather you'd be using it for style parts instead of Bandstand?? or have you swapped to something else?
I basically stopped using my softsynth/software arranger setup some 15 months ago, after buying my PA800.
Still use One Man Band software, for editing psr styles.

Have there been any great new developments as far as softsynths go?
The biggest problem during the time I was involved, was the lack of good quality softsynths that were able to handle the bank & program changes in realtime. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but at the time about the only options were Soundfonts, Hypercanvas?? Bandstand any others I've missed?? Are there any new ones which may be suitable?

With all the above soundsources, a certain amount of tweaking had to be done on an original psr style, if it was to play back correctly, drums being the main problem.

Just wondering what the main difference between using Live Styler on the MediaStation would be , as against using Live Styler on PC ( as you do).

Mediastation is getting an XG giga bank.

Could giga samples be used on a pc based system. Are any of the giga sample players suitable for playback for style parts as far as realtime bank & program changes go.
Can't remember if a giga sample player was one of the options for style parts a couple of years ago.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, it may be hard to believe that I have not made many changes to my software based arranger system in recent times. As you know I spent a great deal of time getting my system up to the quality and reliability standards I set for myself. I still prefer my software based system over any of the hardware based arranger systems out there today. I have operated my software system now for many many years.

I am all for progress and aplaud the development of the MS. It has a better control surface compared to my system for one.

Rikki, I still think you and Fran should just give up on the hardware stuff and again adopt the software approach....you just can't lose!!! Besides I need some friends..

Rikki, as I noted previously the only changes I have made during the last year or so is updating the software, e.g., Kontakt, drivers and so on. My PCs are getting long in the tooth (4 years or so) and I may change them once Windows 7 becomes well established (and stable).

I still use Bandstand and SGM180 LiveSynth Pro. Once Garritan comes out with his GM I would give it a try....and yes I would only use such wavetables for the arranger parts and better quality instruments for my right hand parts.

As far as samplers go, kontakt is one of the best. If you want to setup your own system from scratch you can with it. You can select your own group of instruments in kontakt and then send it bank & program numbers to select/change instruments. Kontakt is very good quality and very flexible.

I used GIGA Samplers and instruments many years ago. They were the only show in town at that time. At that time Nemsys was the company that produced them. They have since been bought out by Tascam and Tascam I think has dropped this part of the business altogether. There are much better samplers and sounds these days then GIGA....just my opinion.

Live-Styler should function similarily on both the MS and PC. The only difference is the operating system (Windows vs Linux).

Now there have been some new developments with respect to samplers. Garritan has come out with Aria (Plogue) and East - West with Play. They finding it a rough go to make things work on all the various different PCs. Kontakt has been very stable on my PC for years. So I plan on staying with it.

HI Rikki

Providing the VST interface can load and save Multi then there should be no problem using them in real time. (The number of sounds that can be stored in a Multi is determined by the amount of Ram you have)

If you have to load each sound from the disc when selected, then real time is not an option.

Interestingly Kontakt can load Multi but Kore can’t. (At least I haven’t found out a way to do this yet)

Another one to have a look at is Independence by Yellow Tools http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=3 which also does Multi.

Regards

Bill

Hi Frank,
quite honestly I don't think I'd go back to a software arranger (or if so ,only as psr arranger module, since yammie don't make one). Handy for midiing to my digital piano.

The style arranger on the korg is superior to Yamaha styles, by that I mean, I can have chord variations ( cv's) for minor chords, maj chords,etc etc the styles can be far more complex, not as static.
(Not that I neccesarily prefer korg styles to Yamaha styles.)

Having said that, what does interest me , is maybe using a softsynth for melody sounds.
ie use my Korg PA800 for style parts & use my laptop as soundmodule for melody parts.
The Korg makes for quite a good controller keyboard. It sends out bank & program changes for melody ( as well as style tracks)& it can be set up to play internal sounds, external sounds or both.
I've had it midied to my sd2 & it worked perfectly.

As you may remember , I never really got past using soundfonts & hypercanvas.
My laptops weren't all that powerful.

May try setting them up again even if it means I can only play vsti's.
If I remember correctly I managed to get
forte working with true piano & my psr. So may give that a go again.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:

Thanks Bill,
I'll check it out. ( yellow tools)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by abacus:
[B]HI Rikki

Rikki... I thought that Yamaha's could have different patterns for maj, min and 7th (I think that only Korg add the dim pattern, could be wrong...)

The thing is, the style designers actually have to USE it as well as the Korg style designers. I must admit, of all the factory ROM styles, the Korg style factory are more willing to use these OS features to add variety to styles in a noticeable fashion. Yamaha and Roland use the same feature MUCH more subtly (if at all)...

I guess that's the whole point of these complex style possibilities. Using them... What's the point if it makes making styles so complex that few even bother (including the factory programmers) to use them?

That's why all this AI from Audya has me concerned. Can you add it yourself to styles? Is it very complex to get right? Will an editor that makes it simple to program be available? Lots of details yet to be made public...

Hi Diki,
not really.
There's only 16 tracks to work with on a yammie style.
Intro's & Endings usually have a min & maj
pattern( I'll call it a cv, which is what Korg calls them). Most of the variations only have the one pattern (cv).
My PSR 1500/3000 manual RECOMMENDS recording chord & pad tracks based on
C maj7th chord & Bass & Phrase tracks based on Cmaj7th Scale tones. Not sure if it's a hard & fast rule as I did most of my styles (conversions, mix n match etc) for OMB software.
Maybe the T3 styles are more sophisticated, but as far as I'm aware they're still restricted to the 16 tracks.

My SD1 has patterns ( cv's) for maj, min & 7th chords, but if neccesary , one can get away with recording just the maj. pattern.
At least that's how I remember it. I gave up because of lack of style editing functions.

Roland, from dim past memory also has patterns for maj , min & 7th chords???
Maybe you can help me clear something up in the back of my mind.
The pattern that is TRIGGERED by playing a 7th chord in style play mode, does it actually have to be recorded based on an actual 7th chord?? and the pattern thas is triggered when playing a minor, is it recorded using a minor chord??
Strange question? but you may understand why I'm asking.

Korg Styles.
Intro's / Endings / Fills ( each can have 2cv's)
Recommendation Maj & Min patterns for Intro's & Endings that have chord progressions, one needs to create a CV for Maj & Minor so that the Intro/Ending plays back correctly.
The Intro's & Endings (where you play your own chord progression) & fills you can get away with 1 cv.

The variations you can have up to 6 cv's per variation. You've virtually got up to 48 tracks to play with per variation.

Ok for anyone who wants to just create the one pattern ( cv ) per variation, the recommended chord type is a maj7th ( just like my yammie).
For the more adventurous you can create an additional 5 cv's. Sounds like a lot of work, but one can always use the copy function to create the additional cv's.

The chord type you play on your keyboard to trigger a particular cv & the chord type that the pattern was recorded in , doesn't necessarily have to be the same.

ie vari 1. (pattern) cv1 I've recorded based on Cmaj7th chord. Technically it's the only pattern I need to record for my variation to play back based on any chord type I play in style play mode.
I go to the Style Element Chord Table & set all the possible chord types to CV1.

It's going to play my min , my 7th , my 6th chords etc etc

Next up I decide I'd like to have just a tiny variation to the drum pattern when I play a minor chord.
I copy all the tracks from cv1 to cv2, alter my drum pattern, go to the Style Element Chord Table settings, change the setting next to min from cv1 to cv2.
My edited pattern (cv2) plays back when I play a minor chord.
Next I want a slight change when I play a 7th chord. I'll alter the bass pattern, but use the same tracks for the rest of the instruments from cv1. Again, copy all the tracks to cv3, alter bass, Alter chord table setting to cv3 for 7th chords etc etc

As far as I'm aware, the only time I would need to totally rerecord a track would be if the track wasn't playing back correctly based on my original maj7th recording ie some jazzy piano track wasn't playing back correctly when playing a diminished chord.
Then one would need to record the track based on a diminished chord.

Each of the 48 style tracks ( 6 sets of 8) in a variation has it's own key & chord type setting.
(Reason why I asked if roland styles.)

You can set any of the 8 main tracks to whatever type of instrument you want ie you can have 3 drum tracks, 2 bass tracks, instrument tracks , guitar mode tracks.
Whatever type of instrument you set up for cv1, will also affect the other 5 cv's.

I just luv the flexibility.


Actually when the brought out OS 2 they included an import/export function for a complete style.
Simple as pressing export, saves whole style as one long midifile , with markers to denote where intro's endings & the various cv's start & end. Brilliant for editing on a pc sequencer. Do the edits, save as mid & import it back into the korg.

Looks just like a yammie style. Just requires changing the marker names, switching channels 9 & 11. Altering a few incorrect drums & program changes & import it into the Korg. Styles already based on a maj 7th chord.
Bit simplistic but more accurate than emc.

Roland's will make a whole style out of just a maj if that's all you program. But yes, Rikki, when you program specific minor and 7th cv's (patterns, variations, whatever ), you actually play a riff on that chord. The trick is, if you anticipate going in and out of maj/min a lot, you have to try and get them fairly the same to avoid glitchy transitions, but Korg manage the best, IMO, at having variety in the chord pattern changes, and STILL not getting jumpy as you change chords...

rikkisbears. That was an excellent explanation of how the Korg Chord structures and their flexibility lend themselves to such expressive styles. Another trick i use when making styles is to copy tracks from one style to another and then edit that track. For example if you are playing a funk style that might have 3 or 4 CV in the bass pattern that you like , you can copy that into a user style and then make edits to that bass pattern to customise it to your taste. The benefit of creating styles this way is that Korg will have worked out already the most common chord types that would be used in a funk style so you dont have to guess what Chord Type is the most suitable for when yo programme your own styles. In effect you have a template for the style and there is much less chance that your new style will sound weird when you play more complex chords. It does make style creation a little more involved but the results can be fantastic. It really pays to hold onto your instrument for at least a few years or more otherwise you never develope the depth of knowlegde and skills to utilise these incredible features on these amazing instruments

Thanks Spalding,
glad to hear what I was prattling on about did make some sense.
Does my enthusiasm over this board show thru?? haahaa
Also thank you for the tip on the copying of style tracks.

I must admit, I don't think I've ever had a keyboard quite as flexible as my PA800. Still discovering stuff that can be done.
It will keep me busy for a long time to come.
Just like the idea of possibly adding additional sounds via a softsynth setup .
Make use of it's controller functions.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding:
[B]rikkisbears.