I have been using my JV-1010 for a long time now, but I still haven't figured out why the following is happening:
some patches sound different in patch-mode than in performance-mode. The EFX seems to have changed. How can I get the type of EFX heard in the patch-mode also in the performance-mode?
I'm using Cakewalk 9 pro audio, and I would like to have a possibily to do this in this program. If I need sounddiver to make this happen, then please explain how to edit in Sounddiver.

Thnx.

Ouch. This is an old and venerable thread from the earliest days of the JV/XP line. The lilchips site had a couple of good online explanations, but the Roland section of that site has recently vaporized forever.

There has to be some archives somewhere that have this explained, since it has been a problem for virtually everyone at one time or another. Do some searching yourself, I'll see what I can do, and if we find nothing, we'll discuss it here. I may have the lilchips stuff printed out somewhere.

But don't despair. We'll get you what you need.

Hi

The reason for this problem is that the JV1010 only has 1 EFX processor, and this an only produce 1 kind of effect at any time. This means, that in performance-mode all parts/tracks will be treated with the same EFX-setting.

So when you choose an overdriven guitar, it will loose its overdrive if the EFX in the performance mode is already used to produce phaser.

The only thing you can choose, is how much signal each part will send to the EFX-processor. The same goes for the reverb and chorus processors.

A work-around is to try and modify the patches, so that they work without EFX. Then use EFX only for the part that needs it most. It really is possible; the JV has a great synthesis engine with vast possibilities.

This is the way all the JVs and XPs work, except from the JV2080, which has 3 EFX-processors.

Hope this was helpful.

Stig

Dr. Rip:

Is Stig's explanation enough, or do you also want to know how to set things up?

True, you only have one EFX processor + chorus + reverb for your 16 performance parts, but how you set it up makes all the difference. You can get instruments to sound the same in patch and perf mode (actually, in two different ways), but it may not be immediately apparent:

(1) copying the EFX settings from patch mode into perf mode
(2) setting up the perf EFX source in a certain way

Let us know if you (or anyone) want to go further with this.

Thnx guys for the explanations so far. Most of it I knew already, but the problem is that I want to keep the EFX settings used in Patch mode also in Performance mode.

I would be very happy and thankful if you could explain how to maintain the EFX settings (heard in Patch mode) in Performance mode.

Maybe you can work it out on this patch for example (then I can try it on other things as well):
USER 015: Combing Slow
When switching to Perf-mode it sounds different and clean. I want to keep the sound as heard in Patch-mode.

Thnx in advance!


btw, if you like to know what I'm doing with my JV-1010, check my website: http://www.dr-ripsaw.f2s.com
There is a flag in the menu left to change language to english. You can find some of my music under 'download'. You really should listen to "Force4"

[This message has been edited by Dr. RiPsaw (edited 09-21-2001).]

Okay; we'll fix you up. I gotta work now , but will try to get to it this weekend.

Disclaimer: I don't have a JV1010; I don't know which buttons to push or how its performances are edited, but the principles in dealing with performances and EFX is, if I understand correctly, the same. The explanations below apply to the XP60/80 and to the XP50 in an appropriately altered form.

I'm going to show you how I set up my basic performance so I always have one part that will use its EFX type and settings the same as in patch mode. We'll do it on an initialized performance just so we all start from the same perf. *Note: always get back to the basic initialized perf screen by using EXIT, not the perf selection number buttons, or you'll end up back at a USER performance.

The following will show you what is happening to EFX in perf mode. You may want to print this out.
**************************************************************************************************

(1) Initialize a performance = in perf mode -> utility -> initialize -> execute
(2) Press EFX
(3) Press Palette

Check out all the OUTPUT ASSIGNS for parts 1-8 and parts 9-16: they're ALL set to MIX except for part 10, which is set to Patch.

= No insert EFX are being applied to any of the parts. The rhythm set uses the reverb and chorus settings for individual keys (instruments) already used in rhythm mode.
***************************************************************************************************

Let's assign EFX to one of the parts:

(1) Press EXIT until you get back to the initilialized perf main screen
(2) Press PART, then part 15 on the 1-16 buttons
(3) Press EFX once or twice until you have the part's EFX general screen
(4) Set OUTPUT ASSIGN (in the bottom left) to PATCH
(5) Cursor right until you get to the far right = EFX Src = EFX source
This determines where your performance will get its insert EFX
(6) Set EFX Src to PART 15

Important: ---> This means that your performance will ALWAYS use whichever EFX (and all its settings from PATCH MODE, which is what you want to recreate in performance mode) is assigned to whichever part is assigned to Part 15.

(I use 15 instead of 16 because 16 is the default control channel, and I want to reserve that default setting. But you can use *any* part you want.)

Now press EXIT to get back to the initialized perf main screen.
************************************************************************************************8

Now try out your new toy:

(1) If you are in the initialized perf main screen, press the arrown (cursor) DOWN button to get into Part Play mode (where you can access the part)
(2) You should still be in part 15; if not, press the part 15 button in the 1-16 buttons
(3) Assign PART PR-B 065 ANALOG SEQ to part 15 (just dial it up)
(4) Make sure your EFX button is lit (=on) (over to the left, next to the REV AND CHORUS buttons
(5) Play a couple of notes on the keyboard; you should hear the DELAY EFX on the notes sounding
(6) Turn the EFX button (to the left) light off; play the keyboard; the DELAY should disapper; turn the EFX button back on; the delay is back.

*************************************************************************************************

Now let's see what you have actually done:

(1) Still in part 15, press the EFX function button below the screen (either once or twice till you're in the EFX general screen for part 15, not the EFX Palette for all four tones)

(2) Check it out: OUTPUT ASSIGN is set to EFX; EFX Src is still set to Part 15, but:

**(3) Check out the EFX type now: 4-Tap Delay.

Why? Because your perf EFX source (upper right) is set to whichever part is assigned to part 15, and you've assigned ANALOG SEQ to part 15, and ANALOG SEQ's EFX happens to be 4-TAP DELAY.

(4) Press Palette: now you see why the Delay on this patch sounds the same as it does in Patch mode: by assigning the EFX Src to part 15, the perf duplicates that patch's EFX tone assignments from patch mode.

Press EXIT to get back to the Part Play screen for part 15 again.
************************************************************************************************

(1) Dial up the next patch in that bank as the patch for part 15: IMPACT VOX
(2) Press the EFX function button (to the right; not the EFX on/off button down to the left) either once or twice to get back to part 15's EFX general screen
(3) BEHOLD: now the EFX type has changed to Enhancer and Chorus, because that's the EFX combo assigned to IMPACT VOX in regular patch mode
(4) Press Palette: BEHOLD: the EFX tone assignments have also changed to correspond to the tonal assignments for IMPACT VOX in patch mode.

ANY PATCH YOU ASSIGN TO PART 15 WILL NOW DRAG ITS OWN EFX TYPE AND EFX TONE ASSIGNMENTS AND LEVELS INTO PERF MODE.

That simple.
***************************************************************************************************

I hard wire (=save) part 15 in this way in my basic performance. During a song, the patches I want to have EFX exactly as is patch mode get assigned to part 15. If I need a DIFFERENT patch during a DIFFERENT the song to have a DIFFERENT EFX type, I use bank and program changes to call that patch up into part 15. It automatically drags its EFX + EFX settings from patch mode. Very convenient. You can use as many patches as you like during a song, and they'll all drag their EFX types and settings into perf mode from patch mode.

It's like you have a 16-piece band. Chair 10 is always the drummer. Chair 15 is always the instrumentalist that has the same EFX type + settings as in patch mode. If another instrument needs *its* EFX type + settings from patch mode, ask the present instrumentalist in part 15 to yield that chair (part 15) to the new instrumentalist. Do this with bank and program changes. If you want the original instrumentalist back later, use bank and program changes to bring that instrumentalist back.

The only downer, of course, is that you can only have one patch at a time using the same EFX type and EFX settings as it has from patch mode, and that patch is always assigned (in my performance) to part 15.

You *can* have other patches in your performance using the SAME EFX type and settings as does part 15. To do so, set the OUTPUT ASSIGN of those parts to EFX instead of MIX. Generally, though, I just make do with one part using its EFX at a time. Occasionally you can assign other parts to EFX as well, especially for the more general EFX types.

**********************************************************************************************

NOTE: Part 15 still does not sound *exactly* the same as in patch mode. Why? It's reverb and chorus settings are not the same because reverb and chorus settings are NOT part of the EFX source. EFX source = insert EFX TYPE, *not* chorus and reverb.
I'll talk a bit about that next post and about how to work around it.
************************************************************************************************

The other way to get a patch in a given part to sound *exactly* (if I understand correctly, including reverb and chorus) the way it does in patch mode is to COPY EFX SETTINGS from patch mode to that perf part. I never use this method because my part 15 is always hard-wired as described above, and I find it too cumbersome. But if you want to know how to do it, go to http://www.rolandus.com/SUPPORT/DOCS/SUPNOTES/XP80SEQ.HTM There's a similar explanation for the XP50.

Sorry if I'm wearing you out with the long posts, but, well, EFX can be complicated.

But back to reverb and chorus:

To get a patch to sound in performance *exactly* the way it sounds in patch mode, you also have to set up the reverb and chorus *types* to be the same and then the routing and send levels to be the same.

Probably the easiest way to do this is simply to use Roland's copy method (see previous post).

The problem I find is that although now the patch does indeed sound the same as in patch mode . . . what about the other 15 players in the ensemble? What are the chances that those 15 players are going to require exactly those types of reverb and chorus with exactly those general levels to achieve the best (and here's the key phrase) *overall mix* for your performance and for the song?

They might, but I find generally that imposing a patch's patch-mode chorus and reverb settings on *all* the other instruments rarely works. Yes, you can tweak the send levels for each perf. part, but you've still had that one patch choose the reverb and chorus types and general settings.

My philosophy is: "You have but one chorus type and one reverb type for *everyone* in your band (=performance). Choose wisely."

So I sacrifice the reverb/chorus types and general settings of that one patch whose [insert] EFX are supposed to sound exactly as they do in patch mode.

Instead, I choose the reverb/chorus types and general settings that best suit the overall performance and tune, then tweak that one patch the best I can to duplicate its rev/chor sound in patch mode. You can get closer than you might think. After all, in patch mode, that patch sounds one way alone; in perf. mode, it's in an ensemble setting and probably needs different rev/chor settings anyway.

This is also why I don't use the "copy" method of copying a patch's EFX settings into a performance part.

So: I set up my EFX Src for the performance to a certain performance part (as explained above; my part is 15) and then set my performance rev/chor types and general settings independently for the performance itself, and finally then tweak the rev/chor send levels for each part in my performance according to what each part/instrument needs.

You can tweak the part send levels at the beginning of the song using CC91 and CC93, or set them manually and save them as part of the performance, then use CC91 and CC93 during the tune if you want to change them.

There are a couple of caveats with setting up your performance to make sure you have enough headroom for your rev/chor levels. If anyone is interested, we can look at that, too.

But I'm sure you're about "read out" by now.

So play with this stuff a bit and see if it helps.

Good luck.

Hi dnarkosis!

You are a really helpful person! You contribute a lot to this forum!

Stig

Thnx guys for all the large replies! I haven't had enough time yet to read them completely, but I'm going to do so very soon, and I think I will manage to change things!

Thnx again!