Dom,
Please do not give up on the arranger part...you have great potential with it.

Use LS to it's full advantage and get some folks doing native styles too.

It will pay off for you...but we must have content...that's what sells along with the open achitecture.

How is the Giga XG sound set comming along...???

Does Frank V. (audiowerks) have it yet??

I am using a Yamaha QY100 rigt now for style tracks on LS, it's not T3...but pretty good! Giga XG has super potential to be better yet.

Lee S.

. Deleted by the OP

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 03-11-2009).]

Kingfrog.... imagine that your MoXS came with NO arps in it, or at least the ones that did basically sucked compared to your T3. And imagine that it's soundset was VERY hit and miss, and it was up to you to go out, and buy a bunch of VSTi's that took considerable skill and luck to 'play nice' with each other.

I doubt you would get it even if you COULD get it at cost...

What do you think 'arps' are? They are style Parts, plain and simple. Slightly different in concept, but essentially the same. Without them, your MoXS is a MUCH poorer keyboard. As the MS is without great styles.

If you are incorporating those arps in your music, you are no more making original music than if you used a style. You have to make your OWN before you can claim that...

Content, content, content... Any modern keyboard without this is poorer for it.

Shhhh.... don't tell this to Dom.

He's been telling us for YEARS how much better this 'arranger' was than ANY poor 'closed' arranger. But now, rather than simply contend with actually knuckling down and providing the styles and sounds that beat the modern TOTL 'closed' arranger (all the darn thing needs to actually bear his bragging out), he's going to concentrate on the users that HAVE embraced the MS... WS users. With little or no need for styles whatsoever.

It's one of those 'for the want of a nail' moments. So near, and yet so far. What a waste.

.Deleted by the OP

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 03-11-2009).]

I'm sorry, but a 'select few' doesn't describe the numbers of arranger players that wanted the MS to be a fully fledged arranger (as well)...

It's the vast majority of the market. Or the MS would sell better than the T3.

That's what I never got... why not appease the OTHER 98% of arranger players AS WELL? All it would take is some great styles and a well balanced soundset. Then instead of appealing to the tiny minority, he would capture everybody in that price range?

Just my opinion,
It can be a perfect arranger. Don't forget that a lot of musicians make their own styles from scratch because in their genre of music, commercial styles don't exist. I think particularly to folkloric musicians, oriental music...
This can be a perfect instrument for these guys.

I would not be so much in a hurry to poo poo the Mediastation. After all you have not actually PLAYED one!! You can harp on me for dismissing $200 powered speakers based on specs, (recommended by someone who seems more concerned with thread post counts) for live use but you are hammering a keyboard with much more promise on paper without having even seen one!! MULTIPLE ASIO HOSTING?? Now there is something I would love to have on the PC DAW.


...What you are describing in your first paragraph is a DAW. Nothing wrong with a DAW. No Arps, No Voice set, yeah needs VSTis and sometimes they don't play nice......... yet its at the heart of every studio and production in the modern world.

Arps are not Styles...Arps are 4 or 8 beat loops that can be used in many DIFFERENT styles. A live Drummer is playing loops or 8 bars or more at a time. A live guitarist is playing loops of a chord progression, Hardly "styles"

A Style is a finished work, made up of multiple Arps meticulously assembled together by someone who is perfectly copying something that was already proven successful (as you once claimed yourself). Thats what Arrangers do. They regurgitate that which has already been successful. They produce the right soundsets with the chosen styles in the right tempos, EFX and combinations to reproduce cover tunes but is a tad handicapping and very restraining when creating something from nothing. The very thing that is the draw of them for an OMB is the bane of them for someone who rather enjoys creating original music. I found that out rather quickly but expected as much which led me to the Korg PA2x because it was the better Arranger "workstation". Turned out it was neither,

The Motif without the ARPS would be just another Work Station. A damn good one though. My Tyros cannot send 16 discrete tracks of Audio to the DAW in one pass with zero latency direct monitoring, (Took me awhile to get it to send 16 tracks of MIDI at once), nor will the T3 allow editable linear or Pattern recording. or control the DAW both ways, I cannot bring up a T3 voice and edit EIGHT different elements of the voice over endless variations keymaps, controllers, velocities, on and on....(but most don't need it)

I DO understand the promise regarding the MediaStation having both a Tyros, a 64 bit open source DAW, and the MoXS. IF it is indeed a combination on any level of those three elements it's a monster idea. And should do well for those inclined to create music rather then recreate it. DO I want one? No I have the bases covered but for someone who didn't I can understand the draw. Is it a tough sell. Yep Professional players on levels above weddings and Bar Mitzvahs don't use Arrangers. That should not be their market.I am not sure where their market is though. People who can appreciate their attempts like me already have a DAW,and usually a Workstation, or KB Controller and a crapload of VSTis.


And Arranger players are usually older guys who are not inclined to want to get involved with a computer on that level and instead want to press a few buttons and go. Left hand chords right hand accompaniment or melody........"Unforgettable...Thats what you are"




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 03-11-2009).]

If the mediastation were to have T3 styles, of what value would the mediastation be to persons who would want a T3 type keyboard?

If the mediastation had OTB styles sounding like Yamaha then persons would complain about the price and value of the MS. If the styles sounded the same like the T3, they would say “why should I get the MS when the T3 can do the job?”
Based on some persons representation hear (they keep insulting and belittling arranger players), most arranger players on this forum are incapable of using keyboard technology. So the extra and innovative features on the MS would be of no value to them.


If the T3 and MS styles were comparable,, then to the T3 market the MS would not be of any value even with the MS’s integration features because as some persons keep stating here, most persons on this forum can not use advance music technology.


I think Dom is going in the right direction. Whether some persons want to admit it or not, the Karaoke arranger market (turn on the keyboard, press one button and sound like a CD recording) is a very small market.

The MS market is the XS PA2x market who wants integration in a keyboard. It is for professionals who want to be able to create and to have their own unique sound on stage. That is why you have not seen arrangers with more modern styles. People who play modern music, don’t just want to sound like a record. The way a modern musician would use an arranger is different than how the older crowd here uses an arranger. Modern music and playing requires putting your own stamp on a song, tweaking sounds and styles and being creative. The modern musician if playing modern music would use an arranger much differently from the traditional arranger player here. The modern musician embraces technology, wants and has the skill to create music and likes tweaking to get their own distinct sound. As most of us know, creating styles is not that difficult if you are creating the style to complement your playing and not replace it.

You can use existing styles and take parts from an existing style, or you can make a style from scratch (both of which I do).

The reason why arrangers have such a bad name is not because of the technology of styles but how arrangers are used.

The more people keep belittling arranger players, asking for arrangers to be a Karaoke machine (G70, T3 …) and not embracing arranger technology and integration, the greater the demise of arrangers.

All is said really nice.
I can say only that now is this tool from box. But it is having own personalization with big big potential.

As BILL says what ever you play enjoy at that.

BR Magica Alfa