The reason why some MS users would not post anything is because of the negative views of the MS by persons who have never seen nor heard an MS in person.

What may be good for me may not be good for other persons. The critics are trying to convince us that they would not judge the person but the keyboard. But with the MS, it is the person you will be judging because it is the person who is creating and modifying the content. So if I modify styles and sounds or create new styles and sounds and you don’t like it, then it is me your are insulting not the keyboard.

What a lot of persons forget is that there has been a number of MS demos and some people did not like them.

Most if not all of the MS’s skeptics and detractors have already formed a strong opinion of the MS’s capability as an arranger for their personal use.
Does any one think for one second that if some one puts up a very good style demo (and lets say that everyone agrees that the demo sound very good) of the MS that such a demo will change any ones opinion here?

I didn’t think so.


I know of one person who has an MS who visited the SZ and said he would never put up a demo here because there is already a negative bias to the MS with their conclusive statements so asking persons to put up demos seems disingenuous.

you are very mistaken. I have never seen nor heard live the Korg Oasys, the Fantom G, the Tyros 3 but i have seen and heard great demos on those instruments. I guess i can make some form of comparative judgement without seeing or hearing the instrument live just on that basis.

However the premise of the MS is that you can tailor it to meet your own needs using pretty much any sound you wish to use from anywhere and that you can programme your own styles so that they sound better than what can be obtained from a "closed arranger".I remember Dom saying that you were not forced to use the manufacturers styles and sounds and that you could use your own etc .And the MS enables this to be done easily because of its integration of numerous style making/editing features and its ability to enable multiple VST's to be used to generate your chosen sound source from the best availbale and not just what one manufacturer gives you . Am i right so far ????

If someone comes on this forum , anyone with any style they have produced themselves on any arranger and says " heres a style i have made have a listen and tell me what you think" then thy will recieve critiscism , but that cuts both ways in that they will be told whats good about the style and whats not good about the style. If you cant take that kind of critiscism then i respect that and would advise you not to post anything.

But if someone has an MS, or a PA1X,or a Tyros 3 and says they can make styles that sound better than the Manufacturers styles then forgive me if i ask you to show me that.

Now if an MS user in particular cannot make styles better than the top 3 Manufacturers styles with all the tools that it possess and all the features it boasts and all the VST's money can buy, and the ease at which it can convert existing styles blah blah blah ....then what the Hell was the point of buying the MS???????????????? .

Can you see the problem with the premise of the MS ????I would bet my beloved PAX on this one....If any musician cant make great styles on any of the top 3 "Closed System" keybaords they have no chance of doing it on the MS either.

The purpose of asking MS owners to put up some demos of styles they made or converted is not to critique thier skill , it is merely to see if the "hype' and claims of the MS in the real world carries any water. Thats a legitimate aim and there is nothing disenguous about it.

You wont get unilateral agreement on anything thats a fact .But most people know when they are hearing good quality well balanced styles even if its not to heir liking.

But lets agree on this, if you have purchased the MS to create your own styles for arranger use, you had better be very good at making styles in the first place If you want to use this instrument primarily as an arranger. And if you possessed such a skill you probably would be just as well off with any top 3 arranger right now whether "open" or "closed".

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-14-2009).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-14-2009).]

The point that is being made is that it really does not matter how good or bad one user makes or modify a style.

If user A makes or modifies a style on the MS. And that user likes the style for his use and purpose, then that user is happy. User A was not making the styles to sound like A T3 factory style.

Now if User A puts up a demo and user B hears said demo and does not like it, does that mean the MS is no good.
Does that mean that user A is a bad style maker?
The answer to those questions is NO.
What may be good for A may not be good for B. But user B will erroneously say the MS and user A is bad.
So that is why a demo will not help any one in the case of an MS demo because there is no common denominator.
Again, the mediastation was never advertised to be the greatest arranger OTB.

It makes keyboard playing integrated so that you have an arranger, synth and workstation all in one. And that is the concept a lot of persons don’t seem to get. The greatness of the MS arranger is the fact that it is open and it is up to the skill of the user to make it the great arranger for that specific user.




[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 03-14-2009).]

If your worried about making styles, then this program http://www.pgmusic.com/ will work with any open keyboard, and is more flexible then any hardware arranger system.

Regards

Bill

with respect Genesys we are not talking about taste in style. We know some peole will like korg arrangements better than roland or yamaha . We re talking about mechanical sounding styles, unbalanced styles styles that glitch or dont sound right when chords chnage. This is what i have heard on the MS factory demos, not user demos. And of the user demos i have heard of styles made by individuals they were what i would expect from someone who did not make styles for a living.....and they would have sounded as mediocre on any arranger keyboard. So whats the big deal with the MS if with all its tools , all its features we are now 4-5 years later and noone has shown its potential..not even its makers ..... And i remember distinctly that the MS was pushed as the mother of all arrangers. That tune only changed when no one could demonstrate its true arranger qualities as being even at best as good as a middle line arranger. But i am glad that it is not now being promoted as such. Now its being called a work station with arranger abilities. Thats far more accurate than what was bing pushed out from the begining. I guess now i have scared off even more potential MS Demo's . Oh well whats the use....

I was just going to record a style, so folks can hear what the MS can play..This was a Yamaha Tyros style, and the MS XG sound bank....but sure enough as I started to record..I decided to play a song..It honestly just came to me to play on the spur of the moment....So without any thought or preparation.."hear" it is..

Remember you guys are suppose to listen to the MS ...not the player..

The glitches are me..trying to think of chord changes...not the MS..

The point is..the MS can play all your Yamaha styles...and sound decent enough with the XG sound bank..........to get paid..


[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 03-14-2009).]

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/663941485/2e9779b72206deb345c80f500a764060


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 03-14-2009).]

You know Fran... that's by FAR superior to anything I have heard at the MS site - warts and all. A bit more on the accompaniment parts volume wise, and it's good...

What's amazing is that Dom can't find anyone at his end that can play this well. I mean, listen to the appalling LS demo at Lionstracs Youtube, and you have to shake your head...

As to the sound of the style itself... It's not bad... you say that's the XG soundset? Perhaps, Dom having shown an inability to make even a passable demo, you could lay down a bunch more of these to showcase the Yamaha styles? Don't even bother with a RH if you don't want to. Keep the chords simple, and let us hear how well the MS handles the Yamaha styles.

And seeing as how you can get a good LS demo going, how about demoing a few of the MS ROM styles (I know it doesn't have ROM, but you know what I mean ) for comparison purposes. Just OOTB, if you will (that will give us an idea of how much or little work they might need just to tweak)... Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to tweak that style?

BTW, I now want an apology from everyone that posted on this forum that the MS can't get a decent shake...

One tune doesn't settle the matter, but it certainly settles the 'myth' of unreasoned antipathy to it. Make some reasonable music on it, and it will get as fair a shake as any other keyboard showcased here.

And if I were Dom, I'd be sending him a check to make a bunch more..

Fran,
Thanks very much for the demo...nice job.
Question please. Is what we heard a Yamaha style converted on MS (to native style on MS) using EMC? or was it a Yamaha style played straight up using Live-Styler on the MS.

Thanks,
Lee S.

Very tasteful Fran thanks so much for putting that up for us to hear.