My gast was never so flabbered when I heard the guitar loop demos as well.

Pretty bad.

If I was buying something this pricey, that sure would be a deal breaker for me.

Ian

My dealer price € 4.399,00 (Dutch)=5.777,69 Dollar.
When i buy in US it cost me $3806 !?(after exchange)

Impuls

[This message has been edited by Impuls (edited 04-24-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Impuls (edited 04-24-2009).]

Ketron is missing somethings that should have been included and I'm sure that with updates it will included. But until you actually try a product and hear it for your self, how can you honestly give a opinion thats its bad or good.

What may not work for one, may work great for others!

I never said the product wasn't good. However, for the price this beast sells for there's NO excuse for this new "break through" top end arranger to be lacking features other top end arrangers offer and offer for $1000 less or more!

Ketron DOES make some great keyboards. I've always felt they did. However, if ANY company places a $5000 price tag on their TOTL FLAGSHIP arranger.., that thing better deliver above and beyond the competition.

I've never said it won't work for others... Every arranger on the market out there works for SOMEBODY.

It just doesn't work for me. Or, I imagine, anyone that relies upon tweaking tools to extensively edit just about everything they do. My approach is simply to pick what 'sounds' best in the basic areas (drums, piano, organ, meat and potato stuff) and then, if it isn't GREAT OOTB, tweak it until it is. Hence, the ease and speed of the tweaking tools are one of my primary considerations.

Others, many others from what I gathered from my 'What percentage of ROM styles do you use?' thread, don't bother with this step, use what an arranger provides basically as is as long as it suits their style, and would be quite content with Ketron's lack of ease in this area. And good for them... it takes all kinds.

And sorry, mc, but I don't need to play something to know, from reading the manual and listening to others' posts, when certain OS issues are going to be a dealbreaker. I buy an arranger for what it does NOW, not what MIGHT be added at some indeterminate time in the future, at an inderterminate level of ease and simplicity. Perhaps, after Ketron address all these issues, come out with some onboard software (I hate using a PC to do this stuff, especially as I run a Mac and these editing softwares rarely come in a Mac compatible form) that is as easy to use as Roland's Makeup and Cover Tools, and their Style Composer, the Audya, at it's hugely inflated price, MIGHT be more attractive.

But a good OOTB sound alone isn't my primary need... I don't do Latin, Portuguese, African or any of the other styles that Ketron excel at. So it's ROM styles are going to be a small percentage of what I would need. Hence, it's editing tools are my main priority. For $1500 MORE than I payed for my brand new G70, I expect $1500 MORE stuff and features, not $1500 MORE, and $1500 LESS as well...

Trust me guys... anyone that says that Ketron have good editing tools simply has not TRIED these on a Roland.

I talked to AJ and there is an update coming shortly that gives the Audya all the necessary editing and creation tools for styles.



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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Diki,

"My approach is simply to pick what 'sounds' best in the basic areas (drums, piano, organ, meat and potato stuff) and then, if it isn't GREAT OOTB, tweak it until it is. Hence, the ease and speed of the tweaking tools are one of my primary considerations."


I want to trust you. So let's say I take a G70 out of the box and it's brand new. I call up a 16beat style and don't like the way it sounds. Please explain the steps to change simple things such as type of voice used ( drums included) and change effects such as panning, chorus , delay etc...for every variation - intro's endings included. Once the changes are made where is the style saved and how easy is it to call up the style, once it has been changed.

I'll be back sometime tomorrow to read the steps.

Thanks.

Diki,

When did you listen to an Audya? The proof is in the sound and you've NEVER heard it, Never. Are you really dumb enough to think a demo listened to on computer speakers in a compressed MP3 format is even close to hearing the real thing?

Do you really think all there is to an arranger is guitar loops in a style? I play mostly big band and jazz, and strumming guitar loops in the style are of little importance. Leeboy and I both heard the guitar audio loops in the mix of a style and they sure do sound good. But we don't know anything especially after 40 years of professional playing. You know because you read the manual and heard some poor quality MP3s.

How about live drums, great bass. How about stunning saxophones and trumpets, organs that have slow/fast rotors without having to set up special effects? Let's hear you play Mustang Sally with a real break in it. Oh I forgot the g70 doesn't have a break. A list price north of 3000 dollars and they can't even include a break button. To top everything off the default method of storage on the g70 is a floppy disk. Roland must have had a warehouse full of floppy disk drives that they needed to get rid of. Again a list of over 3000 and you need to pay extra for an outdated pcmcia adapter.

You want to create and use sequences? Why don't you just buy a karaoke machine, same difference.

Yes you need to tweek the sounds on the g70, especially the drums. Why, because they don't sound real. The saxes and brass sound plastic as well. Roland gives you tons of voices and very few are high quality. Go ahead and spend your time tweeking, I'd rather play.

You are correct that the Audya seems to be priced about 1000 to 1500 too high.

I think you like to post just so you can read your own writing regardless of its quality. I'll bet you like to hear yourself talk too. We all know people like you.

Tom

lets not go here gentlemen......its just opinions. It does not have to get personal just because the opinions expressed dont agree with our own. Come on, its time we showed we are bigger than this.

So I'm correct in saying the Audya is @$1500 too expensive, but I'm not correct in saying that the style editing tools are limited and complex?

Look , for the sake of following your argument, first tell me if you have EVER extensively tried out the style editing tools on a modern Roland... Because, apparently from your logic, you shouldn't make comparisons if you've never used them...

OK, first things first.... Dan. Every style you call up, you hit a button called 'Makeup Tools'. Every single style sound (irrespective of Part - sometimes there are multiple sounds, either in the same variation or in others) comes up in an individual widow there, easily scrolled through. In which, the Tone selection, Vol, Pan, Chorus, EQ, Reverb, Mute (so you can mute one sound within a Part, and have others sound), and most importantly, velocity offset (either plus or minus). Tweak here easily and fast. OK, now go to the drum Part (only one, sadly ). Firstly, you have all those global changes. Then in the same window, you can open up the Kit, and every drum sound has the same changes... Sound, Volume Pan,Reverb Chorus, EQ, and the all-important velocity offset (if you have multiple velocity sound drums, this is critical). Fix what you need, leave what you don't. Style sounds great now. OK... Now either save it as a new style, or overwrite the original. When saved as the original. all edits will now come up regardless of registration (UPG in Rolandspeak). Done. Fast. Easy. Graphically self-explanatory (never had to read the manual).

Oh, and all the mixer aspects of each and every sound (independent of the UPG's Part Vol. and Mute offsets) is available in a conventional Mixer window, to be quickly adjusted with the sliders that are there right under the display and lined up with no visual offset (hate that on Yamaha's, etc.).

It is faster to do than write about...

Plus there's a great tool called Cover Tools, that will revoice, to at least ten or more different selections of sounds, an entire style, or a bass section or just the drums. One button, your rock style uses acoustic sounds, or electronic sounds, or ethnic sounds, or acappela voice sounds, etc.. They are well tweaked, on the whole, and generate easy jumping off points for your own tweaking. One button, remember...

Once again faster to do than write about.

Once again I ask... have you actually TRIED to use these things? Because, apparently, I'm not the only one talking about a subject without actual experience. If you want to know more about it, I suggest a download of the manual, and the same process I use. Read. Listen. Think..

And Tom... Tom, Tom, Tom...

Firstly, my computer is linked through a MOTU 2408mk2 24bit interface to a pair of Mackie HR824's. Good enough for you? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/tongue.gif[/img] Secondly, about a billion downloads of commercial music have been sold on the iTunes Store of MP3's of commercial music at a quality at LEAST high enough to satisfy the customers (those same people whose opinion of your act you trust so much). That same, or better, MP3 quality is there for every manufacturer download and demo. Please don't confuse compressor 'compression' with data compression (of which even your arranger's ROM is compressed). No offense, but I'll put a 256kbps file up against the original and challenge you to tell the difference (if encoded with a quality encoder) any day. And, anyway, forget all that bull...

If the difference between the real thing and a good quality MP3 is going to decide an arranger purchase for you, you are out of your skull... (I apologize for getting maybe a little bit as personal as you [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/tongue.gif[/img]). An MP3 of a T3 sounds pretty much like a T3. All my recordings of my G70 are available in MP3 form (as are most demos, including the Audya's). And I can't hear enough difference between it and the real thing to care a bit, or say it doesn't represent the true nature of the thing...

Hell, I even SAID I liked the sound of the demos... Presumably, I'm wrong, and shouldn't make ANY conclusions about the sound even if it sounds GOOD? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/rolleyes.gif[/img] Really? Well, OK, I guess I have to start saying everything I've heard on the Audya sucks (because it is an MP3...) [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif[/img] [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

And Tom... To claim such utter G70 absurdities! Either you are FAR more ignorant of the facts than I am, or I'm missing some subtle humor, here... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

The G70's default storage is a 50MB SSHD. No moving parts. Bombproof, Then there is a card slot, Once again, bombproof, instantaneous, on the fly loading. So what if it is a bit older than SD. It is functionall identical. The floppy is a legacy interface for courtesy. It also has a USB port, for direct computer communication and backup. No, it ain't USB2. It don't need it. A backup of an entire full HD don't take more than a couple of minutes. I can spare that (don't need it at the gig, because up to 4GB can be accessed by card). There are no sampler loads, no MP3 players (I know you hate karaoke as much as I do!) to bog it down with massive data transfer needs. But If it did have those, I'd rather them on a card than an HD. Seek times are too long for instantaneous load up of styles, songs and registrations.

OK, what's next.. yes, I remember... the break button (or lack thereof), and complete lack of a Break. Rubbish. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif[/img] It not only has a Break, it has two assignable panel switches it can be assigned to, footswitch and FC-7 control, too. Nice try. Don Pardo, tell him what he WOULD have won....

Sorry, Tom, but maybe you ought to take your own advice and TRY something before you comment on it. That is, if you can't be bothered to download the manual and simply find out those facts for yourself, or read a few posts about the issues. Like I can.

My flabber really is getting WAY past ghasted.... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Oh, and Tom... I know people like you, too. Can't be bothered to find out the facts before they come out guns blazing. 40 years playing, and you haven't learned that yet? Tsk....