In your position Donny.., I completey understand that yes it's a drop in the bucket because you see a fast return. However.., on both sides of the fence the home player outnumbers the performer by a huge difference.

Every so often I go into local stores to do demos for their keyboards.., and boy you guys have no idea how many younger players want an arranger.., but when they see what they can get on the other side for less.., well it's a lost game right there. Did a demo not too long ago and had a guy I knew who uses an S-900 in his church let me use his when I did a demo. I had 20 somethings wowing over the sound of the S-900..., but how many of those 20 something's do you think went for the semi and pro workstations after they saw what the price was for a plastic home keyboard.....

KingFrog.., Let Yamaha start putting plastic cases on their top end synths and watch how fast people start complaining about how easily it is to damage them on the road. Sure.., plastic does have a great benefit.., and that's a decrease in weight.., but put a platic shell on a synth that costs over $3,000 and consumers will go nuts. I don't see metal pro keyboards trading for plastic anytime soon. Maybe if the plastic was Kev. inforced

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]

Squeak...its called ambition
20 somthing??????? let them go get a job and earn the money for what they want...its called the American way. Plus its a good lesson in responsibility and life. !

Two grand for an arranger with the features such as the S900 possesses is not much money, considering, there are those paying nearly three times that for a TOTL arranger that does not do a whole lot more.

Donny has the right idea...for pros, $2000 is a small investment, considering how much that arbitrage will return in a few weeks or months of gigging.

Trying to compare a cheap Roland workstation to a MOTL arranger is like comparing hamburger to steak.

Home arranger players are a different breed than those that tinker around with inexpensive workstaions...the former want to sit down and make music right away, not spend hours assembling a piece of music like the latter.

Two different customers.

Don't judge by age Donny. I've seen plenty of 20 somethings that play the same styles of music here that would put members on this forum out of a job. Not all 20 somethings are into the rap, hippity hop, and modern stuff

Saw a guy not too long ago (kid was 22 years old) loved jazz, blues, big band, all the traditional.., and that kid was smokin! He played a PSR-S700 (SMOKING!!!!)



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]

Ian.., don't look it it as a arranger vs workstation. Look at FEATURES compared to cost. TAKE IT ALL INTO CONSIDERATION. Some budget workstations offer just as much if not MORE than semi-pro arrangers.

Ian if you think that workstation users are spending hours to create their music you're dead wrong. Workstation users are just as quick to pop out a tune. It doesn't take long to create multiple versions of patterns on a workstation and chain those together. You make song creation on a workstation sound like it takes forever to get something done when that's just the opposite

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]

Donny and Ian.., just on a side note. I tried to get that 22 year old to upgrade his S-700 to an S-900. Kids chops and vocals were hot! His solo work was amazing.., and I just couldn't help but think how much stronger his solos would have been if he had SA voices. His sax solos on the S-700 were quite good..., but man an S-900 in this kids hands would have been bliss.

Kid was a strong jazz player. Good jazz singer too. He even took modern music and turned those into jazz versions!



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]

I can readily see this is not a thread for home users however I think our perspective should contribute as well.
Surely the manufacturers of these keyboards must have a need of home user support. How many semi or pro buyers can there be compared to the home user that is the one who supports these products.
I am no longer a pro user for several years now. Oh sure I do a gig once in awhile but I don’t count that. That random gig doesn’t even buy Donnie’s used Keyboards.
So how much are us home users willing to pay for a have it all arranger, now that 639,000 of us a week are loosing our jobs, our houses, our cars, and our reputations?
Who will buy the home arranger if the choice is between insuring your family under an exorbitant priced Cobra Policy and a new have it all, do it all arranger keyboard?
Maybe the pro buyers have to pay more now in order to replace the home buyer who is no longer buying.
I used to pay 10 to 20 thousand for an organ and 5000 for an arranger in the piano stores and be glad to do it and get it.
What am I willing to pay now? What will formulate my decision?
Depreciation and available cash will be big part of that decision. What does the newest and greatest have to offer the home player that we probably already have in our current keyboard? Not a lot probably. New styles? We can download them all over the internet. We can also make them.
How often does the home player play his home arranger that he needs all the latest bells and whistles. I play mine about 4 hours a week now days.
Depreciation?
I play a tyros 2 that list at about 4000.00. I just had a quote from Musician 123 or whatever they name is that buys your gear or takes trade. Their offer for my mint Ty 2 with max hard drive and Ram installed was about 600 for cash and about 800 for a trade in.
Do you think this excites me to buy the latest and greatest at ah exorbitant price if there is no return on it?
I also play a Roland E 80 that had a list price of 5000. I See these Roland jerks are now pedaling them off for 2000 a pop.
Do you think this would excite me to go buy another Yamaha or Roland.
I still have a PSR9000 in here that I have never sold because of the depreciated value. There are 8 more keyboards in here that I have never sold. I also have a complete recording studio in here that I have never sold. I have never sold these because I have been unable to come to terms with the depreciated values. Like Donnie sez use them, write them off and pedal them. How do us home users do that Donnie?
There are nearly 7 million people out of work in the us today. They are trying to live on unemployment checks that max out in California at 450 a week. This barely buys food here and not keyboards.
I may soon just take up playing the phonograph
That is the perspective of this home player regarding price increases for a new over priced keyboard.
Best to all,
OLD RETIRED BEBOP
PS: I forgot to add that half the keyboards in here are Work Stations. They go back to the pro working days. One is a dedicated sampler. They don't have much value either

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 05-15-2009).]

What budget workstations do not offer is the instant gratification of an arranger.

With the arranger, you immediately have a full band backing you in real time, with fancy intros and endings (some like them), real time fills, on bass chord recognition, and in the case of the S900, powerful and expressive SA and mega voices that are superior to most workstations, even some that cost far more.

Arranger players want to play now , workstation users, not all, mind you, tend to construct music.

That's why it's called a "work" station...they could have called arrangers "play" stations but I think that term has been copyright by Sony.

I still contend they have different users with different needs...though there will be exceptions.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-15-2009).]

BEBOP..., THANK YOU! Exactly..., too often the home users voice gets burried on these issues. For every performer on the Zone there's probably 10 that play at home. These prices can and DO hurt the home
player.

People on the forum seem to think I hate Yamaha..., but the truth is I WOULD own a PSR-S900 right now if it was built better and had better quality keys. S-900 tickled my pickle man! I'm not just into modern music.., as I do like traditional styles. The S-900 actually fits my needs for traditional music.., but I ain't payin that amount of money for that build quality. Sorry.., but I can't.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]

Ian you cant speak for the instant gratification of the workstation player. How do you know that workstation players don't get instant gratification out of the box. A style isn't always instant gratification as that has many forms. Instant gratification for a workstation player can be wetting your pants after auditioning the arp section on a Motif XS for example. Hell for Motif owners instant gratification can be just by simply turning the beast on and seeing that NEW SCREEN