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#263420 - 05/15/09 11:24 AM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by squeak_D: Ian you cant speak for the instant gratification of the workstation player. How do you know that workstation players don't get instant gratification out of the box. A style isn't always instant gratification as that has many forms. Instant gratification for a workstation player can be wetting your pants after auditioning the arp section on a Motif XS for example. Hell for Motif owners instant gratification can be just by simply turning the beast on and seeing that NEW SCREEN Different forms of instant gratification...it just drives home the point that they are for different kinds of users. I demo workstations and use them a lot in the studio, but they are different beasts than the arrangers, and consequently, require different masters. Again, there are exceptions...I am one of them, as I use both, depending on my musical needs at the the time. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#263421 - 05/15/09 12:12 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by squeak_D: the truth is I WOULD own a PSR-S900 right now if it was built better and had better quality keys. S-900 tickled my pickle man! I'm not just into modern music.., as I do like traditional styles. The S-900 actually fits my needs for traditional music.., but I ain't payin that amount of money for that build quality. Sorry.., but I can't.
Is there an arranger made by another company, roughly in the same price range as the S900, and with as many features, that has the quality you want, Squeak? Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#263422 - 05/15/09 12:18 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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Nope.., but I still ain't payin that price for a plastic home keyboard S-900 sounds great.. Love the SA voices.., not too fond of the drum kits.., but acceptable. Love the orchestral voices.., good styles, blah blah blah.., but it ain't built like a $1,700 keyboard. Sorry Ian.., I just dont' see how Yamaha can charge that price and build it that way. I'm not saying it'll fall apart in my hands.., but it's not built well enough for my tastes. Not too fond of the key action, but it's passable. Still.., a little under 2 grand for a plastic home keyboard.., nope ain't buyin it. I still say if Roland can feature pack the Juno-G as they have and build that pupply with solid button contacts and give it a metal panel for less than a grand.., well Yamaha can up their build quality too. Ian I've had a Juno G and S-900 side by side. The G may have plastic end caps, but the overal feel to the buttons is better IMO.., and the panel is at least metal. Not even comparing sounds either. Just overall build quality. [This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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#263423 - 05/15/09 12:31 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Originally posted by BEBOP: I can readily see this is not a thread for home users however I think our perspective should contribute as well. Surely the manufacturers of these keyboards must have a need of home user support. How many semi or pro buyers can there be compared to the home user that is the one who supports these products. I am no longer a pro user for several years now. Oh sure I do a gig once in awhile but I don¡¦t count that. That random gig doesn¡¦t even buy Donnie¡¦s used Keyboards. So how much are us home users willing to pay for a have it all arranger, now that 639,000 of us a week are loosing our jobs, our houses, our cars, and our reputations? Who will buy the home arranger if the choice is between insuring your family under an exorbitant priced Cobra Policy and a new have it all, do it all arranger keyboard? Maybe the pro buyers have to pay more now in order to replace the home buyer who is no longer buying. I used to pay 10 to 20 thousand for an organ and 5000 for an arranger in the piano stores and be glad to do it and get it. What am I willing to pay now? What will formulate my decision? Depreciation and available cash will be big part of that decision. What does the newest and greatest have to offer the home player that we probably already have in our current keyboard? Not a lot probably. New styles? We can download them all over the Internet. We can also make them. How often does the home player play his home arranger that he needs all the latest bells and whistles. I play mine about 4 hours a week now days. Depreciation? I play a tyros 2 that list at about 4000.00. I just had a quote from Musician 123 or whatever they name is that buys your gear or takes trade. Their offer for my mint Ty 2 with max hard drive and Ram installed was about 600 for cash and about 800 for a trade in. Do you think this excites me to buy the latest and greatest at ah exorbitant price if there is no return on it? I also play a Roland E 80 that had a list price of 5000. I See these Roland jerks are now pedaling them off for 2000 a pop. Do you think this would excite me to go buy another Yamaha or Roland. I still have a PSR9000 in here that I have never sold because of the depreciated value. There are 8 more keyboards in here that I have never sold. I also have a complete recording studio in here that I have never sold. I have never sold these because I have been unable to come to terms with the depreciated values. Like Donnie sez use them, write them off and pedal them. How do us home users do that Donnie? There are nearly 7 million people out of work in the us today. They are trying to live on unemployment checks that max out in California at 450 a week. This barely buys food here and not keyboards. I may soon just take up playing the phonographƒº That is the perspective of this home player regarding price increases for a new over priced keyboard. Best to all, OLD RETIRED BEBOP PS: I forgot to add that half the keyboards in here are Work Stations. They go back to the pro working days. One is a dedicated sampler. They don't have much value either
[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 05-15-2009).]Bill I understand your position & thank you for your thoughts on this topic.Home players are making themselves happy playing music......& that is priceless. We have short times on the earth, how we choose to take life's journey is up to each of us & we all do it different. I'll bet you can still make great music on anyone of those arrangers you have in your home due to your talent not the unit itself. You cannot change the way the market conducts business & to make a profit to exist is a fact of life although we might not like it as in depreciation....a car for example being one of the worst investments ever & a cancerous cash cow at best. Technology is in its infancy for sure now....imagine whats in the horizon in the years to come .....in a few short years what we have now will surly be atiquiquated..........money, money, money, rules the world but dont let it rule yoruself. Good luck my friend.
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#263425 - 05/15/09 12:36 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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Donny YOU the consumer have more power than you think. You want prices to drop.., then don't buy the next upgrade. All the makers bank on you UPGRADING your entire keyboard. You can drive the cost down FORCE their hand.., just by NOT buying their next biggest and greatest thing.
The keyboard makers always remind me of that movie ANT'S. At some point all those little ants realized they outnumbered those grasshoppers like 200 to 1. When they realized it the tables turned. It's like the keyboard makers are grasshoppers who are smaller in numbers.., and the consumers are the wee little ants in this. The consumer can drive cost down. Give into their greed.. and they'll just get more greedy.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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#263426 - 05/15/09 12:41 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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I don't see the makers switching over to plastic bodies on the high end models anytime soon Donny. Sorry.., but I can't see this happening (at least not for a long while).
I can't wait to see any of the top three release a TOTL workstation made from plastic and see how consumers take that. Plastic seems to more acceptable in the arranger market for people who want feather light keyboards. Weight isn't as much an issue with workstation owners as you hear it brought up so much more in the arranger community.
People here bitched about the weight of a G-70 but as Diki and Fran can tell you that weight is for a reason... Clearly better quality DOES translate into increased weight. You want a featherweight then hey.., enjoy the plastic.., but there's a huge number of us who have no problem with a few pounds if it means it's built better.
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-15-2009).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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#263427 - 05/15/09 01:03 PM
Re: Yamaha's Price Jacks.., are they helping or hurting?
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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I thought the Korg PA-800 was plastic, and I know the Tyros3 is plastic, and yet they seem to hold up remarkably well. So, an S900 is going to do the same. I doubt very much if metal will continue. Plastic composites, and even carbon fiber, are slowly taking their place and giving strength and lightness...and they are much more renewable and environmentally friendly Buying a G-70 for portability is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography. Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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