Hey guys. I recently got a chance to check out the SRJV10. You guys were totally right. This is a KILLER board! The samples are sampler quality and with a little bit of programming you can get some great stuff out of it.
Now the question: I notice that on some of the PATCH drum kits, the Toms are missing, as to add an extra waveform so you can do some expressive snare fills (i.e. Snare p waveform and Snare f waveform on the same key).

This is great, but is sucks not being able to play a full kit because you'd otherwise scrap expressiveness. Is there a way to layer sounds in performance mode in such a way that two parts can be layered (thus allowing me to combine one drum kit with another) and play them simultaneously (using key splits to map them properly)?

I know of the Layer vs. Single performance mode issue, but it seems that LAYER is LAYER and you can ONLY layer parts. On the Roland SC880, the [PATCH] mode is built in such a way that you can layer up to six sounds and still play independent parts with the left over parts not used in the layer. Follow me?

I know it's tough, but it IS a yes or no question. Please help me out. I don't want to buy a sampler, but this would determine whether I buy this board or not. Thanks.

The Infamous EPU.

You could make a 16 part "Layered Performance" drum set with each part consisting of a User Patch consisting of up to 4 tones, couldn't you? That is, use the individual waveforms on the B&D board to create a User Patch (up to 4 waveforms)...save to User/Internal Memory, of course...and do this for up to 16 different hits/patches...then, use all 16 User Patches in a User Performance (Layer Key Mode) and map them out across the keyboard how you want.

Is that what you were thinking?

That was a good attempt Wilkes, but not exactly. I am aware of the key mapping, but on my SC880, you can set two parts to the same MIDI channel and map them to different key zone. This differs from our XP's [LAYER] mode which will let you set some parts to one channel, but then you can't play the other [PARTS] individually.

The reason I would want to do this is so I could map a whole drum kit using parts 1 & 2 for example and play the combined kits on channel 1 & 2, since they would be on the same channel, I would be able to play them at the same time from the board.

Then I would use the remaining parts to build up a sequence. [Part 3] could be the trumpet and [Part 4] the Bass. It just sucks that because you use the crossfade parameter in a patch to map two tones to one key, that I have to lose the Toms or the Cymbals, Because of that, I can't play it like a full drum kit.

I think the only other option I have is getting a used Roland Octapad. The pads can individually be set to ANY channel and from there I could play two seperate channels at once with out having to go to Layer mode.

Any other suggestions guys?

The Infamous EPU.

I guess I don't really understand what you want to do. If you want to layer patches in something other than a Layered Performance, I think you know that you cannot do that on an XP synthesizer. Are you looking for a way around that "limitation"? Can't you construct a User Drum Kit that could give you the drum sounds you want and use it in a (Key Mode) Single Performance? I know what you mean by a "patch drum kit", but I'm very confused as to how two "patch drum kits" could give you much more than you could get using a regular (Rhythm Mode) drum kit. You want two tones played at the same time? Set each tone on adjacent keys in a drum kit and strike both keys simultaneously. If you want "pitched" drum sounds, then you'll just have to sequence a part at a time using the "patch drum kits".

So, on your SC880 a patch can be comprised of 6 parts (equivalent to the 4 tones or "parts" of an XP patch)? What I don't understand is this: "...[in SC880 PATCH mode,] you can layer up to six sounds and still play independent parts with the leftover parts not used in the layer." Is this like an XP Performance Mode that would allow one to set the first six parts to "layer key mode" and the last ten parts to "single key mode"?

Sorry that I may not be fully grasping what you are asking/describing. Good luck, anyway!

No Wilkes, you've been a great help actually. I went to the VsPlanet site (www.vsplanet.com) where there are also a lot of Roland XP/JV/XV users and my question was answered. Now to answer some of your questions.

1) The SC880 has three modes - [Tone], [Patch], [Performance]

The [Tone] mode is similar to the [Patch] mode on the XP. The cool thing is that unlike the XP, you don't need a ton of effects to make your sounds sound good.

The [Patch] mode is similar to the XP's [LAYER] mode in that you can set up to six tones to make a more complex [patch]. It's important to understand that here the "patches" sound like XP Layer performances. The remaining 28 parts (32-6) can be used to sequence data. So you can have one complex Patch and still use other tones

The [Performance] mode on the SC880 is like a [Single Performance] on the XP. However, you can assign all of the parts to any channel and trigger two sounds on one channel if you'd like.
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As for my XP problem, the internal keyboard can't be used to trigger both channels or more at once in [single] mode. I could do this by patching a MIDI cable from the [MIDI OUT] to the [MIDI In]. I'd have to turn all of the channels' [LOCAL]'s off so I don't get any doubled notes.

Why would two drum sets on one channel be more powerful than a super mapped kit? You HAVE to check out the SRJV80-10 Bass & Drun board. In [PATCH MODE] there are twenty kits tht are mapped similar to the rhythm set. The difference is, since you only have four waveforms to assign to differnt keys, WAVEFORM MENU samples are used, these single waveforms have differnt percussion sounds mapped at different keys.

Like the internal waveforms, Roland has sampled both Loud and Soft snare samples. In the patch kit, what they would do is use a velocity split to assign both tones to one key (D2, just like in a normal rhythm set). When you do flams and snare fills, the effect is UNBELIEVABLE! I am a drummer and the sound reproduced is beyond me. All becuase of the velocity split.

I COULD map those two waveforms to two different keys in a rhythm set, but then you lose the effect of going loud to soft on one key and programming all of a sudden becomes less intuitive. Anyway, in the patch mode, since a soft snare waveform and a loud snare waveform have been used, that leaves two more waveforms to be mapped. The first is the KICK and CYMBAL Menu and the second is the HI HAT MENU. That takes up all 4 tones, no room for the toms. That sucks.

In performance mode, if I could set two rhythm sets to the same channel, I could key range one of the two so only the toms would play and use the other channel for the rest of the drums since I can't have the whole drum set in one patch due to velocity/waveform usage reasons. The drum set becomes full, I have dynamic control and I can get great sounding tracks!

Alas though, this can't be done on the XP with out doing a MIDI loop as I just explained.

I know I babbled, but now you see why this was such an issue to me. I hope I answered your questions.

The Infamous EPU.

Very interesting...I appreciate the "babbling"! I'm going to check out the Bass and Drums board this weekend, now that you've made me curious. The MIDI loop idea is quite clever, eh?

I love when more advanced XP/JV users encounter problems and ask for help because I learn cool new things I can do with my XP!